Friday, February 10, 2012

THE OCCUPY MOVEMENT'S LATEST: Shut down the corporations??? On my 17th Birthday at that!?



THE NEW AGE MOVEMENT (OOOPS, aka 'OCCUPY MOVEMENT') LATEST -- AND ON MY 17TH BIRTHDAY (GRIN) AT THAT.  FOR THE RECORD, I WAS BORN ON LEAP YEAR DAY!  This is getting to be a more and more bizarre exercise in what I perceive to be Hegelian dialectics in action, e.g. CRISIS = OPPORTUNITY, or GLOBAL ANARCHY = OPPORTUNITY FOR 'GLOBAL GOVERNANCE.'  Who will benefit?
You can watch the video here:

http://youtu.be/AUUrVzL6eEE

Stay tuned!

CONSTANCE
Comments: 1 – 200 of 256 Newer› Newest»
here is something on this from
Doug Hagmann & Joseph Hagmann
some emailed to me. THESE ARE NOT MY WORDS.

Are you baffled by the wording, timing and bipartisan support of recent legislation such as the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), the Expatriation Act, SOPA, PIPA and ACTA? Are you concerned over the enhancement of domestic security measures that appear to be targeting and incrementally ripping away the rights of law abiding American citizens? Are you concerned about the evolving DHS “domestic extremist” definitions? Have you wondered about the true origins of the financial crises and what appears to be a quickening of events in all sectors of our lives? How about the origins of the current “Occupy Movement?” When and why everything started? Who and what is to blame? If so, you’re not alone.

We conducted an extensive investigation of the occupy movement to identify the people involved, as well as the money and influence behind it. What we found is that nothing related to the “Occupy Movement” is what it appears. In fact, nothing from Arab Spring, to DHS policy and beyond is what it appears to be. We found unsettling relationships between people, elected and appointed officials, groups, and organizations that extend back many years.

Investigative integrity demands a deliberate blindness to political party affiliations, but not ignorance to political associations. Consequently, our results will most assuredly anger many on both sides of the political aisle. If it does, we’ll know that we’ve done our job. Our findings might also brand us as conspiracy theorists too. If so, we’ll know that we’ve done our job well. Our findings are bound to make some people nervous. We hope they do, as we will then know that we’ve put our investigative skills and experience to good use....

Looking closer at those who were in positions of power and influence during pivotal points in history, and who had and have influence within our government during the passage of such legislation as NAFTA, the SPP, as well as the more draconian legislation such as the NDAA and others laws, both today and in history, we found direct ties to controversial organizations such as the Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the attendees of the Bildeberg Group. It is our professional opinion, based on extensive research, timelines and contacts, that these groups exist solely for the “one percent,” and the members set the agenda in the U.S. and globally. One might chuckle at the thought and call it nonsense, but the evidence proves otherwise....

Meanwhile, crony capitalism - birthed by the creation of the Federal Reserve and exploited by career politicians and their financial counterparts- made significant inroads over the last few decades, exacerbating pre-existing societal divides. A “perfect storm” is now brewing.

Now, when the terrorist ideology of the radical left is combined with the effects of crony capitalism, we have a much more fertile environment for orchestrated social unrest than at any other time in history. Add to that an elected president with a communist heritage who launched his political career in the Ayers/Dohrn household, the timing is anything but coincidental, and the path to chaos should be quite clear.
 
In other words, the very people (New Age materialists) the Occupy crowd think they are against, are using them as controlled opposition to accomplish the unrest that will cause a crackdown.

This is the Strategy of Tension that was played in South America in the 1980s. Provocateurs heightened tension and then govt. forces reacted to facilitate more severe dictatorship and death squads.
 
Dear Constance,

How are you?

Seem to remember that you once posted a piece about Dr. Javier Solana's "grandiose" idea for expediting shipping in the EU (although was unable to locate it in a search). In reference to same, you may be interested in the following, dated 10/23/11 (scroll approx 2/3 down page):

* * *

EU’s crisis-busting projects

Posted by Florian Pantazi on 23/10/11


On the 19th of October, the European Commission has announced in a press release that it will invest 31.7 billion euros into the transport infrastructure of member countries in need. Until now, as the document states, rail and road networks have been developed within the EU on a national basis. Opportunities for interconnectivity have thus been lost and that has severely restricted the free flow of goods and people across the continent.

Mediterranean countries such as Spain,for example, stand to benefit most from such investments. According to La Vanguardia, a rail link along the coast from the Franco-Spanish border to Algeciras in the south will finally be built in the next few years, at a cost of some 19 billion euros. The railway will bypass Madrid altogether. This development is also in line with the measures advocated in a recent Project Syndicate op-ed (“Mediterranean Reborn”) by Javier Solana. According to him, the building of new rail links connecting southern Europe with the centre of the continent will reduce costs as well as pollution levels and help rebalance the current trade flows from the Pacific region to Europe. Since northern European countries have far better-equipped harbour and rail networks than the south, merchandise from the Far East or India that comes via the Suez Canal into the Mediterranean currently bypasses ports like Venice, Marseilles or Barcelona in favour of Amsterdam, Rotterdam or Hamburg, even though the trip is three days longer.

The Commission will allocate money for the upgrading and linking of oil and gas pipelines, as well, in an effort to streamline energy distribution across the continent.

Taken together, these projects have the potential of creating tens of thousands of low-level jobs across southern Europe, at a time when unemployment in Spain, for example, has reached alarming levels. (sources: Presseurop, European Commission press release, La Vanguardia, Project Syndicate).

http://florianpantazi.blogactiv.eu/author/florianpantazi/

or

http://tinyurl.com/78oherb

* * *

Also, you may find the following notable, by the same author, dated 2/7/12 (1st article on blog):

EU’s Foreign Policy Assessed

* * *

It seems our budding economist may be coming into his own; apologies for the length and have a great day.

A fellow watcher

P.S. The blog was accessed through an online EU periodical:

http://www.euractiv.com/
 
Surprise surprise.....this appears to be a pro union movement - possibly even union - sponsored.

The "corporations" the occupiers want to shut down are non union and/or do business in right to work states.

Here is an example:

Shut Down the Corporations

WAL-MART

http://occupylosangeles.org/
?q=node/7808
 
Wow Susanna,
What an interesting tidbit of
information.
Unions, I think, became over
the years, maybe the biggest
problem with this country.
They have caused more inflation
than anything else. They have been
the root reason why millions of
good American jobs have been
shipped overseas.
The inherent greed of the owners
multiplied by the inherent greed
of the unions; has there ever been
so many overpaid people in so
many positions which they cannot
be fired from, for life ?
Unions have ruined America.
Looks like they're trying to
finish the job.
 
the only solution is WorldRevolution

I just pulled this off the opening window at occupywallst.org. Also read the headline story on Greece and how the occupy movement is relating what is happening in Greece and other European nations to what is happening here and what they are protesting here. Very interesting.
 
11 February 2012

Lord Carey (former Arch-bishop of Canterbury) " warns 'Christianity marginalised'

"Former Archbishop of Canterbury Lord Carey has said the Christian faith is facing "gradual marginalisation".

"His warning came after the High Court ruled a council acted unlawfully by allowing prayers to be said before meetings, a ruling which could affect councils across England and Wales."

"He told the BBC the ruling was "an empty victory" and councillors could simply pray privately before meetings."

"The case had been backed by the National Secular Society..."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-16995239
 
Vladimir Putin exposes the NWO Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr5GxN3C8uw&feature=related
 
Cardinal says Pope will be dead in a year.

http://tinyurl.com/8695j6n
 
war with Iran will mean a police state at home, military bigwigs in US and Israel don't think was with Iran is a good idea.

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKiJXjse6v0&feature=related

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZzoDLbIwIA&feature=related

Part 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2SwP_82hv8&feature=related

Part 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq-6e0VRo4A&feature=related
 
Paul,

I have evidence that I am right about the union connection. On Fox News, it was reported that "Occupy CPAC" protesters which were organized by the AFL-CIO and the Occupy DC Movement were offered $60.00 for the day by the Sheet metal Workers Local 100.

LOL Some of the protesters didn't even know what C-PAC was and for that reason were unwilling to speak on camera.

I guess it's hard to get good help these days - especially with the unemployment and welfare benefits being what they are. Why work?

Here are a couple of interesting articles.

"OCCUPY CPAC" PROTESTERS PAID $60 FOR THE DAY (VIDEO)

http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/
10/occupy-cpac-protesters-paid-60
-for-the-day/
_________________________________

CONFUSED PHONIES OCCUPY CPAC

http://conservative
-compendium.com/wordpress/2012/
02/confused-phonies-occupy-cpac/
 
Note the reference to Wisconsin in the following.

#F29 Shut Down the Corporations

January 7th, 2012

National Call to Action Made by the Portland General Assembly – January 1st, 2012

Occupy Portland calls for a national day of non-violent direct action to reclaim our voices and challenge our society’s obsession with profit and greed by shutting down the corporations. We are rejecting a society that does not allow us control of our future. We will reclaim our ability to shape our world in a democratic, cooperative, just and sustainable direction.

We call on the Occupy Movement and everyone seeking freedom and justice to join us in this day of action.

There has been a theft by the 1% of our democratic ability to shape and form the society in which we live and our society is steered toward the destructive pursuit of consumption, profit and greed at the expense of all else.

We call on people to target corporations that are part of the American Legislative Exchange Council which is a prime example of the way corporations buy off legislators and craft legislation that serves the interests of corporations and not people. They used it to create the anti-labor legislation in Wisconsin and the racist bill SB 1070 in Arizona among so many others. They use ALEC to spread these corporate laws around the country.

In doing this we begin to recreate our democracy. In doing this we begin to create a society that is organized to meet human needs and sustain life.

On February 29th, we will reclaim our future from the 1%. We will shut down the corporations and recreate our democracy.

Join us! Leap into action! Reclaim our future! Shut down the corporations!


*This call to action was issued by the Portland General Assembly on January 1st, 2012 with unanimous support.

http://www.occupytogether.org/
 
"with the unemployment and welfare benefits being what they are. Why work?"

Where do you get that idea? they have always been pretty inadequate. especially with high rents, and unemployment depends on how much you were making before you lost your job, and on continuing to look for work and showing proof of search, and runs out eventually anyway. Add mortgage payments in the case of unemployment, and you really have a problem.

A lot of people routinely have to choose, even when employed, ad definitely when on assistance, between food, clothing and shelter not to mention clothes, shoes and schoolbooks for the kids.
 
Where do you get that idea?

From when I was in banking and worked with welfare investigators.
 
I have been told by some unemployed people they have no interest in finding a job until they've exhausted their "benefits" because they receive nearly as much unemployment as they do working. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad there is a safety net but there is abuse too.
 
Christine,
Thank you for sharing the link on the Singularity Movement. There is a lot of interesting information there. It sure seems the attempt is being made to create a new super race of half human/ half computer beings.
 
John Rupp, you're welcome. Originally I thought it was all hype, but now I see that it is possible some serious problems could come from this, not to mention the attitudes of the main spokesmen.
 
Are the Koch brothers sympathetic to the new age?
 
Anon@9.23pm,

You wrote: " I'm glad there is a safety net but there is abuse too."

Too right there is bro, the situation is a lot worse where I am in Europe, where the socialist parties have turned the safety net into a fishing net.
 
Just this past week I heard a figure on the news that said that the current dollar amount of benefits one can receive from being unemployed was around $35,000 a year. So if a prospective job pays less than that (after adding all the benefits in), it doesn't pay, from a "bottom line" $$$ viewpoint, to go back to work.
 
I have been told by some unemployed people they have no interest in finding a job until they've exhausted their "benefits" because they receive nearly as much unemployment as they do working. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad there is a safety net but there is abuse too.

So you extrapolate this anecdote to the 9%+ of the United States population that is officially unemployed?

What is the Biblical basis for attributing the immoral behavior of a subset to an entire demographic group (the superset being the 9%+)?
 
I plan to do a post on this.
Checking them out, look what I found...Starhawk is their reference for training material. Bottom of page here:
http://www.shutdownthecorporations.org/?page_id=71
 
@10:12 AM

I'm not going to let you put words in my mouth neither am I going to argue with you. I said I have been told this by SOME people. Where did I say this is all 9+ percent of the United States?

This comments section of this blog is not very cordial and become rather nasty. I think the new agers exhibit more civility than here.
 
I'm not going to let you put words in my mouth neither am I going to argue with you. I said I have been told this by SOME people. Where did I say this is all 9+ percent of the United States?

And I have been told by some church-going Christians that there is no such thing as hell.

Does that say anything about Christians as a group?

Perhaps you should look around your church and see if there is anyone out of work and see what you can do to assist them instead of posting at this blog about what some lazy and dishonest people do.
 
@2:12 PM

Again, you don't know what you're talking about and are making ASSumptions. You know what that makes you.
 
Again, you don't know what you're talking about and are making ASSumptions. You know what that makes you.

You didn't have Mr Kramer for math. If you had, you would know there are two variables, not one, and that ASSumptions makes an *** out of both you AND me.
 
I'm not the one taking things out of context so let's remove that variable.
 
Anon at 9:23- I have heard that come out the mouth of an acquaintance before. He said, I'm going to "milk it for as long as I can". I didn't say anything, because if I did, I would've judged him for it. My husband gets laid off for a month in the winter, and 3 months in the summer, its AWFUL. Unemployment is 1/2 the usual pay for him. It puts us behind so badly, we're still struggling now in Feb. because of his Dec. layoff. We couldn't even afford to buy our son bday presents yesterday. I think that if unemployment was that bad (1/2 or less of what they are used to) for everyone, it would motivate them more to try to get work. Especially if they have kids!
 
I'm not the one taking things out of context so let's remove that variable.

You are the one fanning the flames that demonize the unemployed as a group in a country with a crippled economy. Common enough, at this blog and elsewhere, yet still Pagan or shall we say pharisaical behavior at its worst.
 
I stated what I have been told and you are building a caricature and attacking what you've falsely built. You are an outright liar.
 
Texmom 10:31,

BRAVO!!! GOOD FIND!

If Starhawk is involved I knew it was very likely that people like self-professed communist Van Jones and Code Pink were also involved....especially since Starhawk is one of the cofounders of Code Pink........

Unions, Democrats seek momentum from 'Occupy Wall Street' movement
STIMULUS

October 05, 2011

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-10-
05/politics/politics_progressive
-rally_1_jobs-bill-tea-party-van
-jones?_s=PM:POLITICS
 
Susanna, I found a few more connections and will post that link here when it's ready.
It's always the same people once you dig under the surface, isn't it?
 
Oh, and Happy 17th, Constance:)
 
Marko 9:37 A.M.

Re: Just this past week I heard a figure on the news that said that the current dollar amount of benefits one can receive from being unemployed was around $35,000a year.

I heard the very same thing on FOX News. And I also heard that there is about a $400.00 difference between the unemployment benefits and the paying job. If I am not mistaken, unemployment benefits have been extended to 99 weeks.

But I already have first hand knowledge of a similar moral hazard from when I was involved with banking and we had to deal with the "Welfare Queens."

And believe me. They are still alive and well here in Massachusetts! The home of illegal alien "Auntie Zeitunie" (Obama's aunt)in whose honor the Food Stamp Card has been dubbed "the Auntie Zeituni Card" by radio talk show host Howie Carr.
 
Texmom,

Re:It's always the same people once you dig under the surface, isn't it?

It sure is.
 
The starhawk connection is interesting. It ties to one of the worst forms of witchcraft, anderson-feri, which she seems to have had an initiation in and was giving initiations in it for a while, and to the general "gaia" cultic "deep environmentalism."

Miriam Simos, her real name, was involved in the protests against the G8 or G6 or whatever that was conference of governments about whatever in Seattle some years ago. Perhaps her involvement had to do with her concerns about the environment (her false god) vs. the corporations "raping" it, but here it seems odd, since Occupy is only peripherally about the environment.
Perhaps her organizing skills and experience were valued.

The attack on the corporations who are not using unions of course shows how easily such a loose organization that is so mobocratic can be directed by anyone's money and persuasion. Non union requirements means no one can be locked out of work, and no one has to pay fees they can't always afford when they are on the edge and the economy is bad, and that may go to finance long range purposes they don't agree with or people like the Mafia.

The union movement was once vitally important to the working people, but now is more of an oppressor.

A long range plan of returning everyone to subsistence living as an ideal, which would facilitate population reduction even if that is not liked by the dreamy eyed purveyors of this would fit for a motive, along with of course the self interest of the unions who don't care what happens later.

there is this myth that our ancestors were stronger and healthier. In some ways, maybe, in terms of lack of radiation, fluoride, etc. but the real reason people seemed so sturdy and invincible in retrospect, aside from mythmaking in itself is

high infant and child mortality - only the strong survived usually to reproduce and be our ancestors or get taken note of and

routine use of cocaine and opiate based products usually in an alcohol base.

These will make you kinda superhuman for a time. Then you fall apart at the seams. But with a short life expectancy anyway.....
 
Except for the comments by Susanna and a few others, this discussion board offers nothing of value.
 
Dear Christine,

Re: Miriam Simos, her real name, was involved in the protests against the G8 or G6 or whatever that was conference of governments about whatever in Seattle some years ago. Perhaps her involvement had to do with her concerns about the environment (her false god) vs. the corporations "raping" it, but here it seems odd, since Occupy is only peripherally about the environment.

I give credit where credit is due. Now you are onto something HUGE.

Starhawk is involved with the "permaculture" entity known as Tryon Life Community Farm which was financed by Shore Bank Pacific - a subsidiary of the now-failed Shore Bank Chicago - a.k.a. "Obama's bank."

One of the people involved With Tryon is the self professed "Wiccan" named Starhawk -
the same Starhawk who is involved with Van Jones, IONS, Code Pink and the Gaza "Peace marches."

...In May of this year, global justice activist and writer, Starhawk, held an Earth Activist Training on the Farm, and attendees came up with many design ideas for the land. One idea was to catch storm water by building a ditch on the uphill side of the driveway and then run it underneath the driveway into a filtration system. Currently, rain water from the roof of the composting bathroom building runs into a swale that irrigates the orchard trees......


http://www.tryonfarm.org/share/story

__________________________

Corinne McLaughlin - a New Age guru about whom Constance has logged - was co-founder of the Sirius Community, an "ecological village" here in Massachusetts - Shutesbury, Massachusetts to be exact.

FYI - In ancient pagan mythology, Sirius was the "dog star" - so-called by the Egyptians after their "god" Osiris whose head in pictograms resembled that of a dog.

Corinne McLaughlin also coordinated a national task force for President Clinton's Council on Sustainable Development.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corin
ne_McLaughlin

_____________________________

The "permaculture," "intentional communities" and "ecovillages" were frequently financed by so-called "community development banks" like recently failed ShoreBank which operated according to a business model called "triple bottom line."

This socialist "triple bottom line" way of doing business is believed by many to have led to ShoreBank's failure. Nevertheless, it appeared that things were going to return to "business as usual" after ShoreBank's insolvency issues were made to go away by the FDIC - which translates to mean "at the taxpayers expense."

Some of the more recent management hirees of ShoreBank's replacement, are former "brahmins" of said bank, whom, in an unprecedented move by the FDIC, have been allowed to continue to run the restructurted bank, now a part of Urban Partnership Bank.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ShoreBank
______________________________

YIKES!!!!
 
the stated purposes of these organizations seem harmless enough, but the BIG problem I see in her involvement with them, or perhaps vice versa, is that she is going to be doing rituals and casting enchantments to support all this and work against Christianity and for paganism.

The typical Islamic and Christian Arab opponents of Israeli excesses, not to mention Orthodox Jews who though they aim to control any Jewish state once it exists, considers it inherently wrong because Israel should be reestablished by the Messiah not by some secular movement, is NOT going to be pagan inclined.

HOWEVER....a lot of people in both categories are weak minded, and mystical versions exist of Islam and Christianity that are infectable by what Russian Orthodoxy calls "prelest" or spiritual deception. And if you have a witch rubbing shoulders, literally or figuratively with you, you may well be at more risk for such evil spirit attempts to deceive.

If a Christian cannot be moved into a directly anti Christian position in terms of belief and profession, they can be undermined morally, they can be softened towards religious indifferentism because of the cooperation, and they may be rendered soft headed by some influence.
 
Christine,

Re Israeli excesses, I am reminded of a notice which said "This animal is dangerous - it defends itself when attacked."

Islam explcitly commands its adherents to fight and kill to dominate the world, and to retake territory it once held even if it took it by force itself. All in the koran.

Most Arab Christians are nominal; they say they are from "Christian famlies" or "Christian villages" but they resort to guns as readily as Muslims. Read Brother Andrew's book "Light Force" which tells a story about how an Eastern Orthodox bishop regarded himself as powerless to stop lethal in-fighting between two factions nominally under his authority. But there is a minority of totally committed Arab Christians who understand the implications of thetale of redemption for Israel as well as for individuals and have rejected replacement theology. Julia Fisher's short book "A future for Israel?" tells how these people hold the key to peace - when an Arab tells a Jew that he loves not only him but his people, it blows the Jew's mind. Among the stories in Fisher';s book is one of a congregation in the Holy Land comprising mainly Jewish believers in Jesus, led by an Arab pastor. All of the stuff in Paul's letters about "Jew and Greek" apply to "Jew and Arab" today.

The reason the Temple isn't being rebuilt today is that Orthodox Jews believe it has to be rebuilt by the Messiah, whose identity is supposedly unknown. Talk about being right for the wrong reason!
 
Israeli excesses are well documented - by Israeli dissidents as well as others. The Nazi style of operating has been adopted, and when the SS fled all over hell and back and became advisors to everyone in Asia, the US, the USSR, Africa, etc., there was even one who became an advisor to Israel. I forget his name. I was not surprised to hear this.

Again, this is well documented stuff. I am not anti Israel.

"The reason the Temple isn't being rebuilt today is that Orthodox Jews believe it has to be rebuilt by the Messiah, "

wrong. It is not being rebuilt because the Dome of the Rock is in the way, and so far the radicals among some Orthodox who want to force God's hand and make Him send the Messiah by putting Israel's survival on the line, have not been able to blow it up.

There are people in training now to do the Temple services, who can trace their ancestry to priests.

Replacement theology is not entirely groundless, but the problem with it is that it is too extreme. It ignores that God's plan of salvation and what God might be doing with various nations are not the same thing.
 
@3:37 PM

I believe it highly probable you tangled with Christine posting as Anonymous. She has taken completely over this blog.
 
America's homeless resort to tent cities

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front_page/newsid_9694000/9694094.stm
 
Replacement theology is either right or wrong Christine. Please read Romans 8-11 and tell us which you believe.

Of course, replacement theology and the belief that the Jews have the right to run the Holy Land
does not excuse sins of the Israeli State. And the Israelis do not behave as Jesus would toward the Arabs in the Holy Land. That's why He came! But the Israelis are far more sinned against than sinners. Perhaps you are reasoning as a Christian should but based on unbalanced or inaccurate information. Don't trust the secular media, whom Satan sees as useful idiots!

I wrote: "The reason the Temple isn't being rebuilt today is that Orthodox Jews believe it has to be rebuilt by the Messiah..."

You replied: "wrong. It is not being rebuilt because the Dome of the Rock is in the way, and so far the radicals among some Orthodox who want to force God's hand and make Him send the Messiah by putting Israel's survival on the line, have not been able to blow it up."

Actually I think your reason and mine are both contributory factors.

Where should Christians stand on this? We must not support the rebuilding of the Temple since God himself declared it obsolete - WE are now living Temples, no further sacrifice is needed, and God let the Temple be destroyed in AD70, just as Christ warned on the Mount of Olives. But I would also support unconditionally the demolition of the Dome of the Rock, which was built deliberately on "God's holy hill" (as it still is) to contain the most blasphemous verses from the koran about Jesus (denying His divinity) in its internal decoration.
 
Anonymous 11:47
...and the award for least valuable
of all goes to you and your incessant
whining from the weeds of
anonymity.
If you don't like it here, go away.
 
replacement theology - YOU read Romans. Sure, in the spiritual realm, the Church replaces Israel, or rather, it IS Israel, true Israel the heirs of Abraham showing themselves as such by recognizing Jesus as He said. But those same chapters point out that God has NOT abandoned Israel of the flesh either.

And since you can hardly relate the Church or rather the assembly of Christ, to a worldly nation or state of any kind, until the Second Coming when Christ will rule the whole world, it follows that any remaining validity of specific promises about the land would relate to fleshly Israel. After all, God assigned lands to people other than Israel, note that Moses was told not to take any of the land of Moab or Ammon because these had been assigned by God already.

The building of the Temple has nothing to do with its spiritual validity.

There are Christians who have been involved in helping this project along, in order to speed up conditions that supposedly will precede the Second Coming (and to have sacrifices that are then stopped you need a Temple, the issue not being does God respect them but that they are going on, but that depends on how you interpret Daniel's 70 weeks), these are a sort of right wing type fundamentalists obsessed with playing a role in world history.

Title to land has nothing to do with your salvation. That is the point that the whole argument about replacement theology misses.

That said, God warned Israel in the Torah, that if they oppresses strangers and slaves among them, and any cried out to YHWH, YHWH would avenge them and send the sword on Israel!

Title to the land is not a license to oppress or whatever.

And there might be some problems about the whole Zionist concept anyway, it might have been a providential coincidence of interests that were of use to God's purposes in history outside the Church, or it might be a fraud serving some British and bankster interests back then. The Orthodox Jews always opposed it, except for some who seem by their clothing Orthodox but make a big deal about displacing Arabs and moving in. That could have to do with just being where they are. Some Orthodox as I said want to make a war that will risk Israel's destruction in order to force God to send the Messiah NOW.

They are forgetting, that there are millions of Jews outside of Israel, and such presumptuous games might tick Him off to where He lets them get blown off the map, and brings the ingathering when Jesus comes back and they recognize Him.
 
Christine,

To keep this constructive perhaps we should define replacement theology. I take it to mean the view that the church has replaced the people of Israel - essentially the Jews - in God's purposes, and has consequently thrown the Jews on the scrapheap of history. If you believe that then you will, in turn, regard the post-1948 Israelite State as an accident of history rather than a (partial) fulfilment of certain prophecies not fulfilled in the usual manner by Christ's time. In contrast, I believe it is such a fulfilment. From what you say I *think* you do too - Yes?

You wrote "Title to land has nothing to do with your salvation. That is the point that the whole argument about replacement theology misses." I agree with your first sentence here, but not your second. Almost no Zionist Christians (the opposite of replacement theologians) believe that Jews do not need faith in Christ for personal salvation - that is a caricature due to wantonly unscriptural statements by one or two people like John Hagee. They are not representative of Christian Zionism.

"The building of the Temple has nothing to do with its spiritual validity."

Agreed, absolutely.

The return of the Jews to the Holy Land was the culmination of a Christian Zionist strand of (specifically) English Puritanism. One or two gentile Christians have always taken the Christian Zionist view, based on Bible study, but this was the only mass movement to do so. Its 16th century roots are uncovered in the book "Albion and Ariel" by Douglas Culver, and its continuation in "Bible and Sword" by Barbara Tuchman, from Chapter 7 onwards. With the eclipse of English puritanism this strand flowed into British evangelicalism, never waned, and culminated in the Balfour Declaration. As an Englishman I feel honoured that my nation was used of God.

One or two people have made studies of how nations that have cursed the Jews have in turn received judgement, seeing this as a fulfilment of one of God's promises to Abraham in Genesis. I agree - but would like also to point out the blessings that come to nations that bless the Jews. Cromwell welcomed them back to England, and England's slow rise to greatness began at that time. Napoleon gave them civil rights in his Empire, which grew at an unprecedented rate for the next decade. Within months of the Balfour declaration, the long and bloody stalemeate of the western front in World War I was ended in Britain's favour.
 
New post is now up which shows connections to this Occupy effort; Van Jones, Soros, Starhawk, many more. http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/02/13/occupiers-prepare-to-check-alec-off-the-lefts-shopping-list/
It is not just ahainst companies without unions. It is specifically against conservatives, as linked in the story.
 
Sorry but really now.....I'll say it again--last time cause this is getting beyond ridiculous on this blog....Anonymous said...

Wow.Can't cut through all the rhetoric from the angry poster(aka Justina)to find as much info here at this site as we used to.It's becoming very boring here since others cannot get a word in edgewise. Proverbs 10:19 says:In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise. You might try want to try that sometime Christina(aka Justina). (and give us all a break--- practicing a little self-control like the Holy Spirit wants to teach us all).
 
let's try subcategorization. - full replacement theology = Christians are in, Jews out on the scrapheap partial replacement theology = God has not cast them off, we are a wild olive branch grafted in among the domestic olive branches (the Jews) and the root (the Jews) bears us not vice versa, but we are the true Israel and they are until blindness is removed from them not false but inadequate Israel.

curses on those cursing the Jews - I don't curse them. However something nags at me in Daniel, that men will try to establish the dream but fail. What men, which dream? Zionism or the larger picture of German Romantic based ethnic nationalism or the larger picture of assorted hairbrained schemes e.g., fascism, marxism, all of the above, what? Or a chasing after dreams in general as a feature of last days culture?

Another feature of last days listed is men running about (much travel? exploration?) and knowledge increase. In one sentence some 300 years of technological advance and information gathering and dissemination are dismissed as a blip on the horizon. Yeah, we're getting closer, I guess.

I any case, whatever the cause, the Jews are there and shouldn't be allowed to be destroyed, BUT that doesn't mean we let their keep the pot boiling "fortress Israel" crew who subsidize anti Israel terror to keep Israel on its toes and not get complacent have their way either.

Or our equivalent.

Self restraint - I think I have carved down the post sizes since the past two or three threads. Les is more, but some things aren't simple.

Information poverty - take any subject I bring up, google it, see what you find. I give you starters.
Anyone watch those video links I put up?
 
I stated what I have been told and you are building a caricature and attacking what you've falsely built. You are an outright liar.

You're awfully angry which means I hit a nerve. Guilty conscience lurking underneath somewhere? Good.

Perhaps (unlikely, but perhaps) an examination of conscience will follow, and you will turn from your little bubble, open your eyes, and see what is actually happening in the world around you. Perhaps you will then even be inspired to take up that commandment (oft quoted, seldom practised): Love your neighbor as yourself.

Or perhaps you are so brainwashed by your contemporary that you believe the second great commandment is "Read your Bible" or "pray."

P.S. Affirming people in their self-centeredness is not charitable. Trying to shake you out of yours is my way of loving you, for were I as self-centered and as unconcnerned for my NEIGHBOR I would equally wish to be told the hard truth about myself.
 
No one on this blog has to read every comment. Click the "collapse comments" and all your troubles will vanish. Christine often makes a lot of sense, so ignoring her would mean missing information that might be pertinent.
 
TO TEXMOM:

The Starhawk / Matthew Fox link to the Occupy Movement.

T H A N K S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Constance
 
If somebody wishes to skip somebody else's comments, it is easy to use the COLLAPSE COMMENTS feature!

Constance
 
Still, if I didn't know what I know about the New Age Movement, I would be sorely tempted to demonstrate and march with the kids over the tuition issue.

Tuition these days is OBSCENE.

Constance
 
Yes on the collapse feature but our friend Christine has still overwhelmed this blog.......
 
Constance:
You knew it would be there (the link). Just a matter of finding it, right? And I also find so much of it eventually links back to the theosophy movement. Your book has helped me connect a lot of dots.
 
Actually, anonymous commenters have overwhelmed this blog, but so what? Why whine and cry over this commenter or that commenter? There are bigger tragedies in this life. If Christine chooses to add the many entries she writes, then I'm glad someone is taking a passion in exposing the New Age movement to such an extent. Christine offers a unique, fresh perspective. Anyone complaining about Christine or the many anonymous posters, I don't know, should get a life.
 
2:34 PM

You are a real meantal whack job to extract such things from a tiny post. Everyone can see you're a liar.
 
Paul,

Such a holy place in here isn't it?
 
And while we are all arguing or whatever we do elsewhere, this is looming on the horizon.

http://tinyurl.com/7gjqkdn

Though America as Babylon the Great scenario would be fulfilled in a nuclear wipeout of NYC, DC and San Francisco and one or two other places, THIS scenario, given the amount of smoke in the air, would also fit nicely the picture of being able to see the smoke from far away. Maybe both?

Start keeping a few months supply of food and water or water capable THICK plastic jugs, fill up at once and add clorox drops as per FEMA preparedness information, pet food, medicines incl. the herb and essential oil stuff and vitamins and amino acids and be sure to get the volcanic ash off your roofs because it will become cement when the rain comes (it will come soon after because of cloud seeding effect of ash particles) and the roof collapses and kills you, and don't forget N95 masks and respirators and similar materials for your pets or to block all air access in your home, don't expect the electricity to keep working forever or solar to work in volcanic winter. Plant cabbages and kale and collards they take low light and a freeze.
 
February 13, 2012

Britain being overtaken by 'militant secularists', says Baroness Warsi

British society is under threat from the rising tide of “militant secularization” reminiscent of “totalitarian regimes”, a Cabinet minister will warn on Tuesday.

In the speech, Baroness Warsi, the country’s first female Muslim Cabinet minister, is expected to draw strongly on her background to illustrate the importance of religion. Photo: Paul Grover

In an historic visit to the Vatican, Baroness Warsi will express her “fear” about the marginalization of religion throughout Britain and Europe, saying that faith needs “a seat at the table in public life”.

In an article for The Daily Telegraph, the Cabinet Office minister says that to create a “more just society” Britons must “feel stronger in their religious identities”.

The minister, who is also chairman of the Conservative Party, says: “My fear today is that a militant secularization is taking hold of our societies. We see it in any number of things: when signs of religion cannot be displayed or worn in government buildings; and where religion is sidelined, marginalized and downgraded in the public sphere.

“For me, one of the most worrying aspects about this militant secularization is that at its core and in its instincts it is deeply intolerant. It demonstrates similar traits to totalitarian regimes – denying people the right to a religious identity because they were frightened of the concept of multiple identities.”

http://tinyurl.com/8xbum8d
 
ROTHSCHILDS WANT CONTROL OF IRAN'S BANKS

Could gaining control of the Central Bank of the Islamic Republic of Iran (CBI) be one of the main reasons that Iran is being targeted by Western and Israeli powers? As tensions are building up for an unthinkable war with Iran, it is worth exploring Iran’s banking system compared to its U.S., British and Israeli counterparts.
Some researchers are pointing out that Iran is one of only three countries left in the world whose central bank is not under Rothschild control. Before 9-11 there were reportedly seven: Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, Libya, Cuba, North Korea and Iran. By 2003, however, Afghanistan and Iraq were swallowed up by the Rothschild octopus, and by 2011 Sudan and Libya were also gone. In Libya, a Rothschild bank was established in Benghazi while the country was still at war.
Islam forbids the charging of usury, the practice of charging excessive, unreasonably high, and often illegal interestrates on loans,and that is a major problem for the Rothschild banking system. Until a few hundred years ago usury was also forbidden in the Christian world and was even punishable by death. It was considered exploitation and enslavement.
Since the Rothschilds took over the Bank of England around 1815, they have been expanding their banking control over all the countries of the world. Their method has been to get a country’s corrupt politicians to accept massive loans, which they can never repay, and thus go into debt to the Rothschild banking powers. If a leader refuses to accept the loan, he is oftentimes either ousted or assassinated. And if that fails, invasions can follow, and a Rothschild usury-based bank is established.
The Rothschilds exert powerful influence over the world’s major news agencies. By repetition, the masses are duped into believing horror stories about evil villains. The Rothschilds control the Bank of England, the Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank, the IMF, the World Bank and the Bank of International Settlements. Also they own most of the gold in the world as well as the London Gold Exchange, which sets the price of gold every day. It is said the family owns over half the wealth of the planet—estimated by Credit Suisse to be $231 trillion—and is controlled by Evelyn Rothschild, the current head of the family.
Objective researchers contend that Iran is not being demonized because they are a nuclear threat, just as the Taliban, Iraq’s Saddam Hussein and Libya’s Muammar Qadaffi were not a threat.

What then is the real reason? Is it the trillions to be made in oil profits, or the trillions in war profits? Is it to bankrupt the U.S. economy, or is it to start World War III? Is it to destroy Israel’s enemies, or to destroy the Iranian central bank so that no one is left to defy Rothschild’s money racket?

It might be any one of those reasons or, worse—it might be all of them.

http://tinyurl.com/86yltj8
 
Top Republican at CPAC: Jeb Bush could emerge as nominee at a brokered convention...

Al Cardenas, head of the American Conservative Union, has said that Republican turmoil might lead to a brokered convention in which Jeb Bush, former Florida governor, would emerge as a “possible alternative” party nominee.

Mr. Cardenas, who is running this year’s Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC), a gathering in Washington of some 10,000 conservatives, told Mail Online that it was not certain that one of the four current Republican candidates would emerge victorious.

His comments came as Republicans fretted publicly about the perceived weaknesses of Mitt Romney, the establishment choice and frontrunner, Rick Santorum, surprise winner in three states on Tuesday, Newt Gingrich and Ron Paul.

Jeb Bush, former Florida governor and younger brother of President George W. Bush, has repeatedly said he will not run in 2012. He is one of a number of senior figures who disappointed activists and party officials alike by staying on the sidelines.

“We'll know more in the next few weeks,” said Mr Cardenas. “The pressure’s already been on Mitt Romney to close the sale...and he hasn’t.” A split verdict on “Super Tuesday” on March 6th, when 10 states vote, could lead to a surprise at the Republican convention in Tampa in August, he suggested.

http://tinyurl.com/6os5s98
 
"Could gaining control of the Central Bank of the Islamic Republic of Iran (CBI) be one of the main reasons that Iran is being targeted by Western and Israeli powers?"

Er, no. It's because Iran - or at least its leaders - are building nuclear weapons with the openly declared intention of (i) wiping out Israel and (ii) closing the Hormuz Strait to oil flowing to the West.

It might be convenient for Rothschild, of whom I am no fan, but sometimes the obvious explanation is the correct one.
 
"The minister, who is also chairman of the Conservative Party, says: “My fear today is that a militant secularization is taking hold of our societies. We see it in any number of things: when signs of religion cannot be displayed or worn in government buildings""

Um, the Conservative party is the dominant partner in the coalition GOVERNMENT of Britain today. If it really wanted to change this situation it could. Don't believe all you read.

British Christian
 
"Er, no. It's because Iran - or at least its leaders - are building nuclear weapons with the openly declared intention of (i) wiping out Israel and (ii) closing the Hormuz Strait to oil flowing to the West."

(i) is heavily disputed by some observers, who say the Iranian plan is to rely on nuclear power and sell all their oil, and i am reminded of the fellow sent to investigate Saddam Hussein allegedly trying to buy yellow cake uranium in Niger who said many times this was false but was swept under the rug, and (ii) is strictly in response to the oil embargo being contemplated and begun by the EU.
 
Christine,

Anybody who believes that Ahmedinejad is building nuclear installations for peaceful purposes is kin with those who took Hitler at his word when he said in the 1930s that he had no further territorial ambitions.

He has said he wishes to wipe Israel off the map. And he is running a huge nuclear program. Nuclear can be for two purposes: military or for energy supply. Why should a country that is awash with oil wishes to develop a nuclear industry?

That is not just a rhetorical question for Constance's readers but a direct question for you, Christine. Please favour me with a reply.

Israel knows that Mutual Assured Destruction loses its deterrent capability when the other side is of the suicide bomber mentality. Ahmedinejad believes that the last of the 12 Imams of Shia Islam did not die a thousand years ago but is in suspended animation in the Middle East and will rise to lead the world to Islam in the present era. He is a dangerous man. He has played politics with his domination of the Hormuz Strait for a lot longer than the West has threatened an oil embargo. (Closing it would impact his Musli brothers on the other side of the strait, but they are Sunni so what does he care?)
 
"Why should a country that is awash with oil wishes to develop a nuclear industry?

That is not just a rhetorical question for Constance's readers but a direct question for you, Christine. Please favour me with a reply."

The answer was in the post. The plan to rely heavily on nuclear power and SELL ALL THEIR OIL.

Ahmedinejad is probably up to no good, true, but WMD is officially denounced as unislamic, he represents a fringe extreme cult within Shia Islam, and has been ordered to appear before the ruling board whatever they call themselves to explain himself in a couple of months.

Meanwhile a purge is in the works,
targetting those loyal to Ahmedinejad http://tinyurl.com/749afsj perhaps he won't be a problem much longer.

you will note the last paragraph, sounds outrageous. but it is true.
A clergyman, Ray Boeche was approached back in the 1990s by a couple of men in some special black project who were worried about spiritual issues, because precisely this was going on, but eventually went back to it. And a book out recently details American efforts to research and contact the Djinn in Arabia to put them to work for military and intelligence purposes.
 
http://tinyurl.com/78j5otx

"ran's parliament has summoned the president for questioning for the first time since the 1979 Islamic Revolution.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad faces a long list of questions about the state of the economy, as well as his foreign and domestic policy decisions.
MPs have threatened similar action before, but failed to follow through.
The summons will be sent to Mr Ahmadinejad in the next two days. He must appear in parliament within a month according to Iran's constitution.
That means he could appear after legislative elections on 2 March - the first national elections since the disputed presidential poll in 2009."

you will note the arrests listed in the early tiny url were from last year, which paves the way to do whatever necessary without risk of a fight. Isolate the target, then strike. Ahmedinejad is in the Iranian parliament's crosshairs, it looks like.

Perhaps YHWH is going to defuse this situation, using the Iranian parliament to do so, and eliminate the American empire's excuse for war.
 
Anon: "Why should a country [Iran] that is awash with oil wishes to develop a nuclear industry?"

Christine: "The[y] plan to rely heavily on nuclear power and SELL ALL THEIR OIL."

They can't sell all their oil in one go, only what they pump up. Have you any idea of the relative cost of starting a nuclear industry from scratch and building enough additional oil facilities to satisy domestic demand? For an oil-rich country like Iran, going nuclear is VASTLY more expensive. So their nuclear program isn't for energy. Given that Ahmedinejad has said he wishes to wipe Israel off the map, can you think of any other use for nuclear material?

I agree that there is a disconnect between him and the Iranian people. I have about as much confidence that the Iranian parliament will stop him as the Iraqi one stopped Sadddam Hussein in the 1990s, but a Persian Spring might. I would be glad to see him gone, almost regardless of what replaces him.
 
"a book out recently details American efforts to research and contact the Djinn in Arabia to put them to work for military and intelligence purposes"

djinn = genie = evil spirit.

The USA has about as much chance of training demons to do its will as it does training cats. Anyone who messes with the occult gets trashed. AS to whether this is really going on: What book? Written from what verifiable sources? There is no reason to believe the paranoid ramblings of Iran's leaders when they say their enemies use witchcraft.
 
"They can't sell all their oil in one go, only what they pump up."

Obviously. Sell ALL the oil they pump up or most of it instead of using it themselves. A business model.

"Given that Ahmedinejad has said he wishes to wipe Israel off the map, can you think of any other use for nuclear material?"

I think that the business model angle was the reason the rest of the govt. went for this, and this quest goes back to the early 1990s,
but Ahmedinejad has his own agenda.

Meanwhile, WMD has been denounced officially as unislamic because of the range of victims it takes out.

"There is no reason to believe the paranoid ramblings of Iran's leaders when they say their enemies use witchcraft."

I am surprised anyone on a forum about New Age and the occult in America especially govt. etc., would say this.

It has been all over the Internet and other sources for decades. I am mildly surprised Iran noticed, but then they got the Internet also.

The tip of the iceberg was a project or two of the CIA that became public in the Church Committee hearings in the 1970s, and the CIA and ONI have been in it longer than that.

Why ask me to backtrack over all this? take the subject to google and yahoo and start skimming through articles and follow links in them to more articles. Quite a rabbit hole.

At some point this overlaps to the UFO thing, whatever that is.

One problem is the load of disinformation in play, the problem here is sorting out the deliberate lies from the truth that is the bait. Most of it will be true, but with a warp that gets you on some wrong track. It may take a few years to develop a good B.S. detector.
 
"I think that the business model angle was the reason the rest of the govt. went for this, and this quest goes back to the early 1990s,
but Ahmedinejad has his own agenda."

Yep. Nuking Israel. Just like I said.

"Meanwhile, WMD has been denounced officially as unislamic because of the range of victims it takes out"

Officially by whom? Allah? Muhammad? This is the religion of peace, remember - that's why they did 9/11, to show everybody how peace-loving they are. I suggest you google "taqiyya". They wouldn't nuke Jerusalem, but Tel Aviv?

"I am surprised anyone on a forum about New Age and the occult in America especially govt. etc., would say this. It has been all over the Internet and other sources for decades"

Oh, I don't doubt that there are some occultists high up in US defense. I do doubt that they try to use witchcraft for purposes of national defense. It's just their belief system.
 
"Meanwhile, WMD has been denounced officially as unislamic because of the range of victims it takes out"

Officially by whom? Allah? Muhammad? "

While a pro Jihadi Sunni sheikh out of Saudi Arabia supports them in a fatwa, the position coming out of Iran is rather different.

"An Iranian minister told Indonesia's vice president Tuesday that his country has no plans to develop nuclear weapons because Islamic law outlaws the development of weapons of mass destruction.

Mohammad Mehdi Zahedi, Iran's minister of science, research and technology said that based on the Islamic principle, Iran must take advantage of all its potential resources including nuclear technology for the prosperity of its people." http://tinyurl.com/6vb4al9
Granted the number of Shia with the potential to make such choices is too small to be certain of the uniformity of this attitude in Shia.
 
And you believe them, Christine? You believe people who openly say they want to wipe Israel off the map, who are developing an expensive nuclear industry although awash with cheap oil that could supply all their energy needs and still leave plenty for export, who adhere to a faith that calls Jews apes and pigs (check the koran), and which even instructs its adherents to lie in order to achieve its ends? You believe they mean peace between Jew and Arab in the Middle East?

Well, you are the final arbiter of your beliefs. But not of their rationality.
 
Israel has thousands of nuclear missiles. it would be suicidal to drop a couple of bombs on them, and not much more than that could be produced by Iran at present.

If Iran was that eager to get nukes, why didn't they just buy those ones Kazakhstan had for sale when the USSR broke down?

nukes or no nukes, this situation has to be defused without fullscale war, or American interests are toast. Russia and China have made it clear they will defend Iran, and it has been pointed out somewhere, that Russia is not eager for Iran to have nuclear weapons either, after all, Russia has its own islamic problems, though all the major religions there nmeet in council of their leaders now and then. Russia is heavily tied to Christianity as part of their cultural heritage, whatever the actual churchgoing percentage is, and the leadership is mostly Christian.
 
"Israel has thousands of nuclear missiles. it would be suicidal to drop a couple of bombs on them, and not much more than that could be produced by Iran at present."

Mutually Assured Destruction doesn't deter the suicide bomber mentality.

"If Iran was that eager to get nukes, why didn't they just buy those ones Kazakhstan had for sale when the USSR broke down?"

Kazakhstan was not offering maintenance contracts - those nukes would only have been useful to someone who wanted to use them promptly. Ahmedinejad was not then Iran's leader.

"nukes or no nukes, this situation has to be defused without fullscale war, or American interests are toast. Russia and China have made it clear they will defend Iran"

Russia and China have said that they SUPPORT Iran. They are hardly going to say they support America, are they? They have stopped short of publicly saying that they would actually enter a war themselves. I don't know what would happen. You say you do. But it is possible to be certain and wrong.
 
"Russia and China have said that they SUPPORT Iran. They are hardly going to say they support America, are they? They have stopped short of publicly saying that they would actually enter a war themselves."

What kind of dream world are you in?
Or just addicted to mainstream media?
WW 3 has been explicitly mentioned as possible. Usually more delicate phrasing you are falling for, or that is all the American people are allowed to see by the controlled media, other parts of the context left out. All I know, is that very explicit remarks about possible WW 3 have been made.

And as far as the oblique hints you fail to draw conclusions from and rely on face value, just what do you think constitutes "support" in a war in a region where Russian warships are already congregating?
 
"WW 3 has been explicitly mentioned as possible. Usually more delicate phrasing you are falling for, or that is all the American people are allowed to see by the controlled media, other parts of the context left out. All I know, is that very explicit remarks about possible WW 3 have been made."

Your careful use of the passive here shows that you are not able to say the Chinese and the Russians THEMSELVES have said that. In any case, neither of these countries has actually said that they would commit troops, or fire their own guns and missiles from the ground, sea or air at US forces. If they had done then they would not be bluffing - but they haven't said it. That means that they are playing their cards close to their chest. To make your claims convincing, you would have to know what was being said *in private* in Beijing and Moscow. Do you?

In the real world, diplomacy is conducted more like poker than chess. You represent the Neville Chamberlain school of diplomacy and I am profoundly grateful that you are not part of the State Department.

"just what do you think constitutes "support" in a war in a region where Russian warships are already congregating?"

There were regular face-offs between US and Soviet planes and ships during the Cold War, and we are still here - and free. Better Red Than Dead was a false dichotomy. Did you realise that at the time? Or did you fall for it?

I'm content to leave to Constance's readers to decide which of us is in a dream world.
 
For what it's worth, I offer Jeff Nyquist's latest analysis, which speaks directly about the very discussion taking place here regarding Iran and its intentions, and what might happen. There are always intended AND unintended consequences of geopolitical actions. Nobody knows for certain what these will be. The best analysts observe human nature, study history, and gain knowledge from a variety of sources before coming to any conclusions. Jeff has proven to be one of those analysts.

Here is his latest article:

http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/jr-nyquist/what-does-the-ayatollah-want
 
"Your careful use of the passive here shows that you are not able to say the Chinese and the Russians THEMSELVES have said that."

WTF?! I have repeatedly said, and said the foregoing in terms of that,
THAT RUSSIA AND CHINA HAVE SAID THESE THINGS! WHO ELSE WOULD I BE TALKING ABOUT!

"There were regular face-offs between US and Soviet planes and ships during the Cold War,"

and we came within a hair's breadth many times of nuclear annihilation of each other. And we are not in hair's breadth yet.

And if attacking Iran is such a great idea, why did an Israeli intelligence or military officer I forget which get fired for opposing this?
 
Christine,

Please give me a verifiable public quote from a Chinese or Russian *government* source saying that "World War 3" is a possibility if the West engages Iran. That's what you claim to have.
 
What is WTF? Very holy in here isn't it?
 
well after all the work with tiny url conversion seems the post didn't go through. Here we go.

Russia is more muted in its statements, but makes it clear it considers an attack on Iran to be a threat to its security. unusually large wargames in larger geography than normal in preparation for washover from an attack on Iran.
Russia doesn't want Iran nuke armed either, so the peaceful purpose claims are probably correct more or less, since Russia has been helping them and supervising them. Rogozin remark about threat to Russian security referred to at the end.
http://tinyurl.com/82c4dwl

CHINA IS EXPLICIT. "Major General Zhang Zhaozhong commented that, “China will not hesitate to protect Iran even with a third world war,” " http://tinyurl.com/7al4uv9

it was puzzling to some who argued China would only attack over their own interests, but such apparently were ignorant of how much oil goes to China from Iran.


after all the hard work, I am not going to go through it again. I guess i left the page without checking to be sure the test word was copied right, I thought it was.
 
http://tinyurl.com/6takcuh
excellent book Modern Fascism: The Threat to the Judeo-Christian Worldview discusses fascist spirituality as mainstream incl. New
Age spirituality analyzed as essentially fascist, same conclusion as Constance from a different set of information.
 
Well Christine, I admit that I didn't think you could - thank you. A general speaking his own thoughts is not the same as a government spokesman in a formal press conference and the Chinese will be aware of this; also there is an inconsistency in the report between whether he said China would not hesistate or should not hesitate, which it would be necessary to understand Chinese to resolve. Nonetheless Israel knows that its existence is at stake and is not going to give a damn for these words, because it has nothing to lose. I hope the US will have the moral courage to support them against an enemy that intends to nuke one of God's covenant peoples off the map as soon as it can. "Those who bless you, I will bless..."

Read the link that Marko posted to Nyquist's article. It backs up what I said about Ahmedinejad and the Iranian nuclear program.

Whenever war looks likely in the Middle East, some people scream "Armageddon" but it didn't happen under either Bush. We have no way of knowing whether any imminent war would escalate or not. Someday, one such war will. This one? Who knows? Not me, not you. But I am distressed that you mistrust your own country while invariably taking statements by America's foes at face value. If you dislike the US so much you are free to live elsewhere, you know. The West does not does need to hem its people in with an iron curtain.

Isaiah's prophecy that Damascus will be reduced to rubble has never been fulfilled - the world's oldest continuously inhabited city has frequently changed hands in wars, but never been razed. Earthquake or nuke? I'd be looking to what happens next in Syria as much as Iran.

There is an open world market for oil on which China can buy it from anybody, so Iranian oil supply to China is not an issue. China is in fact planning to buy the oil from Canada that Barak Hussain Obama declined in favour of buying oil from America's enemies (Islam and Chavez). Cui bono, Obama?
 
"But I am distressed that you mistrust your own country while invariably taking statements by America's foes at face value."

Since when does some place being my own country automatically make it correct?

Furthermore, these statements are consistent with evaluations from an ex CIA analyst and another ex govt. big wig from the Reagan analyst, and if you did some research instead of preening you would know this. When I first brought this subject us, you should have been clicking away on google instead of arguing with me.

Find some proof to support your position other than mere assertion and blind loyalty.

I refer you to Gen Smedley Butler's rant, "War is a Racket" go find it for yourself I will not do your research for you.

"If you dislike the US so much you are free to live elsewhere, you know."

Who says I do dislike it? Life is okay here for me. But if you bothered to investigate instead of pontificate, you would find that your own country is not run by the people you think it is. the government is to a large extent owned by various interests that do not care about the general public.

"Isaiah's prophecy that Damascus will be reduced to rubble has never been fulfilled - the world's oldest continuously inhabited city has frequently changed hands in wars, but never been razed."

I have heard similar statements about Babylon although whatever settlements continued the original city was nothing but mounds of sand and considered haunted and the nomads wouldn't camp there at night when the archaeologists first started digging around there.

Damascus may well have been razed and rebuilt quickly with a suburb being called "Damascus" but that doesn't matter.

Prophecy is often fulfilled twice in Scripture and history, EVERY DETAIL of Daniel's prophecy about the kings of the north and south has been fulfilled already but the early church Father Hippolytus considered that such fulfillment would happen again.

Damascus being destroyed in our time, does not in any way rule out the concomitant destruction of America, especially if perchance it IS Babylon the Great and a little research on the actual beliefs of many Founding Fathers and involvements of political leaders and people of economic influence since then would give you some pause. (some creep called Barton I think is going about arguing how Christian the founding fathers were, even quotes some line about nothing can be done without The Holy Ghost ignoring the context, which is a rejection of the doctrine that The Holy Ghost exists, and chiding people for holding the belief He does and plays a role in all sacraments and so forth. The author, I think Adams, was a Unitarian, who by definition can be counted on NOT to be supporting The Holy Ghost since they don't believe He exists, and Barton or whatever his name is has read the whole thing since he waves a copy laminated of the original, and is therefore a deliberate liar.)

The commonly presented values of greed and power in society at large are pretty non Christian. The conduct of the country has been that of empire. Take a look at Antipas Ministries "Greed Is Good," viewable free online.

No I won't give you the URL. use google.

I am not a lone voice in this. Except on this thread.
 
Me: "But I am distressed that you mistrust your own country while invariably taking statements by America's foes at face value."

Christine: "Since when does some place being my own country automatically make it correct?"

I never said it did. (Scroll up and check.) But since when did being a foe of America automatically make one correct? That is the attitude of yours which makes me think you don't much like the place.

"Find some proof to support your position other than mere assertion and blind loyalty... if you bothered to investigate instead of pontificate, you would find that your own country is not run by the people you think it is."

And which do you think my own country is? I am not American - I am British and live in Britain. I just like America; certainly I much prefer it to Russian and Chinese ways of doing politics. And I'm well aware of the immaculately documented work on conspiracy of Antony Sutton. If you read his Wall Street trilogy it would give you a better grounding for evaluating the conjectural stuff on the internet that you take as fact. These books are online and you can find them via his Wikipedia entry.

"...go find it for yourself I will not do your research for you."

It is standard academic behavior to expect others to do their own work, but normal courtesy to provide references where it can be found. It's not research, by the way - don't confuse what you do with anything original.

Incidentally I would never claim that America, or Britain, or Europe, or Tsarist Russia, was or is a 'Christian country' (or continent). There have been times and places where most people believed the Bible as fact, but that is not the same as personal commitment.

On scriptural matters, Isaiah (13:17-22) said that Babylon would never be rebuilt, so we can forget about that. My best guess for the endtime city referred to in Revelation is Istanbul/Constantinople (yes it's on 7 hills and the coast); and the scarlet woman is the world financial system (not the endtime religious system as many commentators insist).
 
Wow Constance you are so OLD
geriatric woman makes pathetic comments pertaining to her age,
bat yer eyelashes, get a case of the vapors, pretend your corset is tied too tight, have a histrionic fainting spell and get over it already
 
oh yeah PAUL, its ALL about being a someone on connies blog.


so ya think you are a big man on campus?
or internet tough guy?

you laughable sycophant
you capon

lol
 
Constance, I was wondering if you have seen a documentary called David wants to fly. About the TM movement. ? Your thoughts on it. ?
 
"And which do you think my own country is? I am not American - I am British and live in Britain."

similar problem, less well documented, Icke makes a mockery of the issues. Larouche in his way did so earlier. Sutton is a good start, but except for the Skull and Bones doesn't go far enough, which is probably not his fault. One can only do so much with what one has.

I am not automatically making America the foe, but in all fairness it has acted in that capacity for some time. The situation escalated when it took in all those Nazis. The problem is the elites and the greed.

The whole middle eastern thing was pre planned on our part scroll down to "winning modern wars"

http://tinyurl.com/85toe75

"It's not research, by the way - don't confuse what you do with anything original."

There is nothing original. We stand on the shoulders of others. All of us. Such as could be called "original" on my part consists of reports gleaned on something I don't deal with here maybe once discussed it, and then there is the connect the dots thing. I came to the conclusions I had about Russia and China and Iran before I read anything from ex CIA or whatever sources, based on their relationship as BRIC. then I came across veiled and explicit statements. Observing reported behavior.

China has been prepping for war for a while now, specifically with America, I saw a film over ten years ago of Chinese women soldiers training in hand to hand combat, and a reference to expecting to have to deal with Americans who are rapists.

China has explicitly declared an attack on Pakistan is an attack on China, not relevant to Iran so I didn't bother to look for that one.
After the little incident recently and Pakistan withdrawing support that is a direct challenge to the USA.

"My best guess for the endtime city referred to in Revelation is Istanbul/Constantinople (yes it's on 7 hills and the coast); and the scarlet woman is the world financial system (not the endtime religious system as many commentators insist)."

There are several cities situated on seven hills. Wikipedia lists them. Interestingly enough, the USA is possibly the only country with more than one such in it, and the USA has TWELVE such. Several are players in the worst of the NWO order and satanic and exploitive elites stuff, and two or three of them would be visible if burning from offshore.

USA is currently the only one fitting all criteria, though babylon seems to be a "mystery" as well, so may represent not only a city but a current of some kind of influence or practices, of which freemasonry would be a part, but would also eventually be an actual city or something similar.

The argument we should emigrate to Canada strikes me as silly, however. unlike an ancient city state, the USA is sprawling enough to avoid both her sins and her punishments without crossing the border.

Aside from the issue of oil, China is one of the BRIC nations, which includes Iran.
 
Occupy and Tea Party hold joint demonstration against the NDAA

http://tinyurl.com/7bju57d
 
Me: "It's not research, by the way - don't confuse what you do with anything original."

Christine: "There is nothing original. We stand on the shoulders of others. All of us."

As a research physicist I can assure you that there is plenty original. Nobody knew E=mc2 in the 19th century, for instance. Nobody knew Newton's laws of motion before Newton. Yes they stood on the shoulders of others - it is Newton whom you quote here - but they saw further than their predecessors and they enabled others to do the same.

I know that Britain is part of an international financial conspiracy too. If I want to know more about it I have my own opinions of who is and is not reliable.

"I am not automatically making America the foe, but in all fairness it has acted in that capacity for some time."

It has acted ambiguously, which is not surprising when there is a battle between good and evil going on inside it. My concern is that your criticisms of the USA do not seem to be out of love for it, but rather the reverse. I'm not American so I'll leave other Americans to take this up with you if they wish.

"China has been prepping for war for a while now, specifically with America, I saw a film over ten years ago of Chinese women soldiers training in hand to hand combat..."

What do you expect soldiers to train in? Knitting?

"China has explicitly declared an attack on Pakistan is an attack on China..."

And does nothing despite regular covert US raids from Afghanistan into Pakistan. So it is far from clear whether or not they are bluffing re Iran as well...
 
"I saw a film over ten years ago of Chinese women soldiers training in hand to hand combat..."

What do you expect soldiers to train in? Knitting?"

I did include the part where the film said they expected to be dealing with AMERICANS who are rapists?

Why would they have to deal with AMERICANS as Chinese soldiers unless a war with AMERICANS is in the offing in the military plans?

American atrocities have included rapes, My Lai had worse than just quick shoot massacre going on there, and other incidents and I am sure the foreign press covered it better than ours did the overall reputation is bad and if American male soldiers think nothing of raping American female soldiers you can be sure they are doing the same to non Americans and it is getting reported elsewhere.

"As a research physicist I can assure you that there is plenty original. Nobody knew E=mc2 in the 19th century, for instance. "

So? there is very little core stuff like that to be found. Everything builds on something. What do you want me to do? Go bug the pentagon, the white house, assorted eyes wide shut type parties and some foreign locations as well and report the results?
 
Christine,

You said "I saw a film over ten years ago of Chinese women soldiers training in hand to hand combat, and a reference to expecting to have to deal with Americans who are rapists."

Solddiers are trained in unarmed combat as part of the job, and techniques are no different depending on who the enemy is. As for what they were told about Americans, Chinese soldiers would be told that, wouldn't they; it's called propaganda. As usual you prefer enemy propaganda to home truth. War brings out the worst in people but you should find out how the Red Army behaved toward German civilians, and what goes on in African wars today, before assuming - as you generally do - that the Americans are the worst of the worst.

China was in fact a lot more belligerent toward America under Mao than today. The 'great leap forward' of the later 1950s was his propaganda phrase for selling grain to the Soviets for nukes. Russia needed grain to feed its people and this is the only thing that could pry nukes out of it. Trouble was, China also needed that grain to feed its people, and millions of Chinese starved. Mao knew it would happen and didn't care; he wanted a seat at top, ie nuclear table. (The 'cultural revolution' of the 1960s was his crushing of those who were courageous enough to criticise him for it - he deliberately but falsely let it be known that he was liberalising, to see who would speak out.) In the early 1950s he said that the aim of the Korean War was to "grind up" enough American troops to cause America to lose heart. This all comes from the definitive biography of Mao by Jung Chang and Jon Halliday, the only biog to be based on Chinese sources and Kremlin archives as well as what is known in the West. OK, China is becoming more powerful today and there is a risk of it being underestimated - but it was more belligerent under Mao.

Re: original research. "So? there is very little core stuff like that to be found. Everything builds on something."

I *agreed* with you that everything builds on something, but although the core stuff like Newton's laws and E=mc2 is small in quantity it is dominant in terms of changing our world. Shrugging off E=mc2 with a 'So' does not show good judgement. This is the equation behind nuclear weapons.

"What do you want me to do?"

Since you asked - take your critics on this blog a little more seriously, and stop sliding about when something you say is shown to be wrong, as with your claim that research has never found anything new.
 
Christine,
Thank you for sharing the link on the Occupiers and Tea Party joining forces to try to defeat the NDAA. I see that is happening here in my neck of the woods. That really is a very interesting site (Before It's News). All the other stories are worth looking at to in that site.
 
Christine / anon:

I would toss into your discussion the following observation regarding conspiracy theory and enemies of the US:

Consider that conspiracy theory could possibly be used by our enemies to create a sort of "fifth column" here in America that will serve a purpose if or when they attempt an invasion.

Many people who currently believe in conspiracy theory and are "anti-US government" would, without hesitation, take up arms against that government if war between the US and such enemies breaks out and martial law (or something like it) is declared, thereby serving the interests of the invading forces by creating or adding to internal chaos.

If I have time, I will dig up some articles that document the influence of groups like the KGB/FSB on persons or websites (like Russia Today, for example) that tend to fixate on stories in their reporting that reinforce conspiracy theory thought.

There are valid and important concerns anyone would have concerning some of our leadership and the direction our government and nation are heading. But be careful that the anti-government rhetoric does not play into enemy plans.

As bad as the things are the US has done, Russia and China and other non-western nations and governments have done, are doing, and will do far worse. They are currently much more an enemy than the US government (or corrupt elements within Western governments) are.
 
Marko,

In case you have never heard of it, among the conspiracy gems are the "reports" by "Sorcha Faal" at the "WHAT DOES IT MEAN? site.

Here is the latest:

February 11, 2012

Planned US Internet Blackout On March 8 Raises Concerns

By: Sorcha Faal, and as reported to her Western Subscribers

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/
index1561.htm
__________________________________

"Sorcha Faal," who is supposed to be a female Russian scientist, is the name currently used by conspiracy nutter David Booth.

Sorcha Faal lards his/her reports with just enough truth to make the stories seem plausible.

Her "sources" allegedly include the Kremlin and the FSB - successor to the KGB.

I must admit that I was once almost shnookered by one of Sorcha Faal's "reports" until JD wised me up.
 
"Solddiers are trained in unarmed combat as part of the job, and techniques are no different depending on who the enemy is"

For God's sake man, the point is they were EXPLICITLY expected to fight AMERICANS. That's the point.
And John Moore ran into Russians who expect to someday be occupying our grain belt. check out his Global Warming What The Government Isn't Telling You video I think it is in that one. If not, google him and find some other stuff or email him.


" As for what they were told about Americans, Chinese soldiers would be told that, wouldn't they; it's called propaganda."

Unfortunately, the propaganda is pretty true. Just ask the women who have to work with them in our armed forces, just ask the women who had to be around them before they joined the military.

And no, I have never been "proven wrong" here.

I never pay attention to Sorcha Faal, either, i have no idea what particular conspiracy theory he is into, but he has a reputation for not being that good an info source.

I am sure SOME things he comes up with are correct, a stopped clock is right twice a day. But if Sorcha Faal is on the byline, you need to check the information out elsewhere.

"conspiracy theorist?" what do you think Constance is?

Granted some of the conspiracy theories are a bit out there or too simplistic, or grab one legitimate point, like maybe Mossad was one of many elements in something so automatically "the Jews did it" this is a field where you have to wade through a lot of muck to find a diamond.

But diamonds there are.
 
John, you're welcome. visit my
blog sometime
politicallyunclassifiable dot blogspot dot com

Also, I have some low traffic egroups on yahoo,
preparedness_conspiracy

substitutionary underscore atonement underscore in underscore orthodoxy

malachimartinetc

and I am a moderator on
BlackDahliaElizabethShort
 
Thank you Christine for your invitation, I will visit your blog.
 
Christine,

How about defrocked Russian Orthodox priest Herman "Gleb" Podmoshensky who was largely responsible for merging the New Age cult known as the Holy Order of MANS with the Orthodox Church of America (OCA) after functioning as the group's "spiritual director" and is said to be the "guru" of OCA head James Paffhausen, a.k.a. Metropolitan Jonah?

The word in the streets is that Metropolitan Jonah is on the verge of being deposed.
 
"Many people who currently believe in conspiracy theory and are "anti-US government" would, without hesitation, take up arms against that government if war between the US and such enemies breaks out and martial law (or something like it) is declared, thereby serving the interests of the invading forces by creating or adding to internal chaos."

Interesting scenario, never thought of it, but almost all the conspiracy theories I have seen either paint the govt. problem elements as traitors or the whole world of major powers as under the same influence.
 
"How about defrocked Russian Orthodox priest Herman "Gleb" Podmoshensky who was largely responsible for merging the New Age cult known as the Holy Order of MANS with the Orthodox Church of America (OCA) after functioning as the group's "spiritual director" and is said to be the "guru" of OCA head James Paffhausen, a.k.a. Metropolitan Jonah?"

Old news, however the alleged HOMS influence on Met. Jonah was blamed for his trying to exert his canonical authority, but the authoritarian thing in HOMS was strictly a kind of class system where clergy were considered much more ooga booga holy and higher than laity, not the kind of discipline and clean up that Met. Jonah was attempting.

There are entrenched corruption and in at least one case sexual and another case tolerance of sexual issues in the OCA Holy Synod.

"The word in the streets is that Metropolitan Jonah is on the verge of being deposed."

I will have to check on this. they have been trying to railroad him for a long time. I suspect they delayed getting Met. Job to a hospital when he had apparently SARS, he stood up to them and demanded an investigation of the corruption charges and then died suddenly of some lung infection.

The old, take the long way to the hospital so the patient dies on the way game played out more subtly.
 
Exactly, when did Constance Cumbey turn her entire blog over to Christine Erikson?
 
I no longer suggest to anyone that they come to this blog. It is an embarrassment, not a site for any serious researcher of the New Age movement. Pity.
 
Oliver Stone’s Son Urges Occupiers To Convert To Islam

Isfahan, Feb 15, IRNA – Sean Stone, son of American Oscar-winning director Oliver Stone, said on Wednesday that Islam is the religion of justice and equality.

Sean, who has converted to Islam in Isfahan and selected the name of Ali for himself at the age of 27, said that the Islamic teachings can help the western communities including the United States resolve the problems facing them.

He told IRNA in an exclusive interview that the capitalist governing system in the West and the US has created numerous problems for humanity.

The capitalist system governing the western communities is void of spirituality, thus increasing the sufferings of the mankind, he said.

He said that the people have displayed indignation over the current capitalist and liberal governing system in the form of protests they hold systematically in the western communities.

‘Unfortunately, those displaying grievances over the injustice imposed by the capitalist and liberal governing system in the worldwide Occupy protests are not aware that they would not achieve their goals in the absence divine religions and Islam as well,’ Sean said.

Asked to comment on how he converted to Islam, Sean said that he was born to a family whose father was a Christian and mother a Jew, so that it was very easy for him to accept Great Prophet of Islam Mohammad (Peace Be Upon Him).

‘I’ve studied history and my study of the Islamic teachings helped me understand that Islam can lead the humanity to happiness.’

http://www.irna.ir/News/Politic/Islam,-religion-of-justice,-equality,-Sean-Stone/30819788
 
By way of informing all my friends here, and for those who do not know what the New Age Cult Holy Order Of MANS is, here is a little history:

HOLY ORDER OF MANS
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Holy_Order
_of_MANS

http://www.rickross.com/groups/
hom.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_
Order_of_MANS
________________________________

SCIENCE OF MAN ( morphed into the HOLY ORDER OF MANS )
http://www.scienceofman.org/
history/


EARL W. BLIGHTON ( Founder of Holy Order of MANS )

CO-ED MONASTERY
Newsweek, October 1, 1973

The bands of roving Jesus freaks have largely disappeared from the streets of San Francisco, but in their place these days are patrols of young men and women dressed in black suits and dresses with white clerical collars. They never preach, but if a street fracas breaks out or if someone appears in need of help, the clerical crews seem to spring out of the shadows to offer aid. Then, just as mysteriously, they disappear into their "monastery" to resume the life of the Holy Orders of MANS.
Founded in 1968 by Earl W. Blighton, a self-ordained priest, MANS (the name is an acronym for a phrase revealed only to initiates) is probably the first coeducational monastic order in history--and surely the only one to ordain women as well as men.

"Jesus didn't hate women, you know", explains, Blighton, who is 70.

Blighton claims that his idea for a co-ed religious order was given him by divine revelation. Whatever its origin, his formula has proved remarkably successful. From a single chapel in San Francisco, MANS has blossomed into a network of three seminaries and 71 missionary centers across the U.S. The membership includes 107 male and female priests, 473 "vowed" brothers and sisters and some 500 novices.

Although Blighton and his clergy use the New Testament as their "handbook of life, " they also borrow freely from Oriental and occult sources. The order teaches reincarnation and believes that somewhere in the solar system there exists a "heavenly brotherhood of master teachers" who generously take on flesh from time to time in order to give mere mortals moral leadership.

Blighton himself is regarded by his flock as an incarnated master--possibly Saint Paul--but his only traceable history shows that he is an ex-engineer who was fined in 1946 for practicing medicine without a license in Rochester, N.Y.
...read more.....


http://www.rickross.com/reference/
hom/hom1.html
 
The death of HOMS founder Earl Blighton sparked a four-year leadership struggle, ending in 1978when one of Blighton's top lieutenants, Vincent Rossi, emerged as director-general of the order.

After the Jim Jones "Peoples Temple" tragedy in Guyana, the Holy Order of MANS came under closer scrutiny and the order began showing up on the lists of ''cult groups'' published by organizations devoted to curtailing cult activities.

This is why the leadership began to lean towards Orthodox Christianity - some say with a view to Making the Orthodox Church serve as a more respectable front for their New Age teachings by conferring on them a facade of "legitimacy." This led to the formation of a new organization called "Christ the Savior Brotherhood."

SUDDENLY ORTHODOX
Author: Don Lattin
Date Published: 5/31/1992
Publication: The San Francisco Chronicle (San Francisco CA)

An Eclectic New Age Sect Born In San Francisco, The Holy Order of MANS, Says It Has Embraced Orthodox Christianity, But Mainline Church Leaders See A Case Of Spiritual Fraud

Eclectic in the '60s, Orthodox in the '90s, the Holy Order of Mans is the chameleon of new religious movements.

Its story is a parable of San Francisco in the 1960s and America in the 1990s, an examination of cults, Christianity and the search for truth -- a story about how religious sects are born, blossom and refuse to die.

Founded in 1961 by Earl Blighton, a retired electrician and mail-order minister, the Holy Order of Mans began with that mix of esoteric wisdom, self-styled mysticism and personal prophecy we now call New Age...read more..

http://pokrov.org/display.asp
?ds=Article&id=274
_________________________________

But alas......as previously stated, while individual members were welcome to renounce their past and join established Orthodox churches no established Orthodox chruch would accept the Holy Order of MANS en masse.


Enter two defrocked priests; His Eminence Metropolitan Pangratios Gerasimos Vrionis (a.k.a. Demetrios G. Vrionis ) , spiritual leader of the Holy Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Vasiloupolis, Queens, New York; and Father Herman "Gleb" Podmoshensky.

As previously pointed out in the previously quoted article, unlike most Orthodox churches in the United States, Pangratios' church is not recognized by the Standing Conference of Canonical Orthodox Bishops in the Americas, nor is it in communion with the vast majority of Orthodox parishes, meaning that parishioners from brotherhood churches cannot take communion in the celebration of Mass of most other Orthodox churches.

It was defrocked priest Father Herman "Gleb" Podmoshensky who introduced Holy Order of MANS leader Vincent Rossi to Pangratios. In the meantime, Podmoshensky had become "spiritual director to the Holy Order of MANS and by 1990, both Podmoshensky's flock and the extensive network of Holy Order of Mans churches were officially listed as part of the Archdiocese of Vasiloupolis.
 
It is very important to understand here that the Holy Order of MANS never looked at themselves as a "cult" to begin with, and since HOMS doctrine was already a mixed bag of "esoteric Christianity," entry into an "Orthodox" parish - especially one not recognized by the Standing Conference of Canonical Orthodox Bishops in the Americas - may not have represented for former HOMS members a radical departure from their previously held New Age beliefs tricked out in "Christian" wraps.

METROPOLITAN PANGRATIOS VRIONIS

http://pokrov.org/display.asp?ds=Person&id=42

___________________________________

ARCHDIOCESE OF VASILOUPOLIS

http://pokrov.org/display.asp?ds=Group&id=70

___________________________________

FATHER HERMAN "GLEB" PODMOSHENSKY

.....On July 5, 2011, ROCOR bishop George Schaefer paid a visit to the Platina monastery. While at the facility, Schaefer paid a visit to Podmoshensky.

http://pokrov.org/display.asp
?ds=Person&id=89

___________________________________

CSB CHRIST THE SAVIOR BROTHERHOOD

http://pokrov.org/display.asp
?ds=Group&id=38

________________________________

SAINT HERMAN OF ALASKA BROTHERHOOD

.......Fr. Herman's tenure, particularly the part after Fr. Seraphim's repose, has been under a cloud of scandal. It is noteworthy that many of the parishes associated with St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood were received under different jurisdictions (including Bulgarian Diocese and the OCA). It is assumed that this was intentional, to ensure that each parish would be able to be a part of the broader Church, rather than a subset of any one diocese...........

http://orthodoxwiki.org/St._Herman
_of_Alaska_Brotherhood

_________________________

It is interesting to note that James Paffhausen (a.k.a. Metropolitan Jonah) is a convert from the Episcopal Church and is the first convert to the Orthodox faith to be elected as the OCA's primate.

In 1978, he was received into the Orthodox Church at Our Lady of Kazan Church (Moscow Patriarchate) while studying at the University of California, San Diego.

BEHIND THE DOORS OF REPENTANCE

The Untold Details of the Journey of the Holy Order of MANS/Christ the Saviour Brotherhood and the St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood into the Canonical Orthodox Church

In an article entitled ”The Doors of Repentance,” Hieromonk Jonah (Paffhausen) purported to chronicle the thirty-year trek of former members of the Holy Order of MANS into canonical Orthodox churches. He pleaded that it was ”time for the whole Church to rejoice and welcome into its fold these faithful people who diligently sought the true Christ and the authentic Church.” However, before killing the fatted calf, an examination of the facts omitted from Hieromonk Jonah's history should be considered.
...read more...

http://pokrov.org/display.asp
?ds=Article&id=289
 
The following article emphasizes the fact that the autocephaly of the Orthodox Church of America is not recognized by all of world Orthodoxy. It also mentions the "third wave of immigration" from the former Soviet Union which led to the founding of a large number of parishes of the Moscow Patriarchate in many Western countries.

METROPOLITAN JONA'S RUSSIAN INTERVIEW REVEALS OCA ( ORTHODOX CHURCH OF AMERICA) DETAILS

May 6, 2009

http://www.ocanews.org/news/Jonah
Interview5.6.09.html

____________________________

WAPO: METROPOLITAN JONAH GOES TO WASHINGTON

http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2011/
03/wapo-metropolitan-jonah-goes-to
-washington/

____________________________

At the end of the day, this is not an old story because Metropolitan Jonah has placed at least one Podmoshensky disciple (who followed Podmoshensky into Vasiloupolis) in a position of authority. And as we have already read, Podmoshensky functioned as "spiritual director" for the Holy Order of MANS.

There also seems to be the problem of Jonah's cozy ties with the Moscow Patriarchate which was a tool of the state in the former Soviet Union - as opposed to the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (ROCOR) which was unequivocally anti-Communist.

It is interesting that people involved in the infamous Vatopeidi land scandal involving the Vatopeidi Monastery at Mount Athos in Greece also have cozy ties with the Moscow Patriarchate. What's up with that???

And I won't even go into what may be his ties to "Elder Ephraim" vis a vis his seeking Elder Ephraim's approval for the construction of a monastery.

Also interesting is Jonah's attitude towards the Greek Orthodox which precedes the Russian.

Within months, Jonah was making waves inside and outside the church. At an Orthodox gathering at St. Seraphim Cathedral in Dallas in April 2009, Jonah called the leadership of Patriarch Bartholomew “a foreign patriarchate . . . under Islamic domination.”

http://www.aoiusa.org/blog/2011
/
03/wapo-metropolitan-jonah-goes-
to
-washington/

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 
Gooooogle
 
Me: "Soldiers are trained in unarmed combat as part of the job, and techniques are no different depending on who the enemy is"

Christine: "For God's sake man, the point is they were EXPLICITLY expected to fight AMERICANS. That's the point."

An army is trained to fight FOR its country. Who its enemies are can change overnight - and did, twice, between Hitler and Stalin, for example. Whether the cutout figure used in target practice is decked out American, Russian, Chinese, Indian etc makes no difference.

"John Moore ran into Russians who expect to someday be occupying our grain belt."

They would say that to an American, wouldn't they? NATO exercises during the Cold War were based on a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, and Russian soldiers were trained for that - so those Russian soldiers were just talking about their current training, as soldiers do. But it didn't happen in Europe, because America won the Cold War - thanks to Ronald Reagan (and no thanks to people holding your views). If you looked at the difficulty of transporting a few tens of thousand men across the English Channel in summer 1944, you would realise that the landing and supplying of millions of hostile troops in the USA, or of protecting them militarily and climatically during a forced march over the Bering Strait, is a feat unprecedented in all military and logistical history. I suspect that you been taking trash written on the internet as authoritative. You can find *anything* on the internet, and why you choose to believe the sites you do is more to do with you than with them.

"Unfortunately, the propaganda is pretty true. Just ask the women who have to work with them in our armed forces, just ask the women who had to be around them before they joined the military."

Putting your comments on this issue together means that you are asserting most US soldiers are would-be rapists. Do you wish to retract that? (No, I'm not putting words into your mouth, if you read your own posts.)

"I have never been "proven wrong" here."

Not in your own mind. But, to make the point, here is one example. I wrote, "It's not research, by the way - don't confuse what you do with anything original." You replied: "There is nothing original. We stand on the shoulders of others." I pointed out that, while we do indeed stand on the shoulders of others (which I never denied), the discovery of particular laws of physics WAS original, as there was a time before which they weren't known and after which they were.

You were wrong. But, instead of accepting it honestly, you went into slide mode and started saying that such things were rare.

Even that wasn't true. Scientific discoveries are made every day. Big ones are rare in physics today, but I used them only as examples, and biochemistry is presently in a golden age (cf physics 1900-30) in which big discoveries *are* regularly made.

Apparently only two people don't make mistakes - you and Jesus Christ. I agree about one of those.
 
personally I have always favored the Chalcedon canon 28 interpretation that would put all barbarian lands not under a patriarch at the time, under the Ecumenical Patriarch (Greek ORthodox). OCA autocephaly may not be recognized but I can't think of any Orthodox "jurisdictions" that are not in communion with OCA. Due to a geographic relocation, I attend a Greek church now.

Orthodox internal politics can get very wierd. And irrelevant to the shared core doctrine and similar but not identical practices.

The ones not in communion with the rest of Orthodoxy, are usually Old Calendarist who figure by going on either Gregorian or Revised Julian Calendar the rest of Orthodoxy has become apostate, or didn't like it when ROCOR (or most of it) rejoined the Moscow Patriarchate, or considered having anything remotely to do with ecumenism is apostasy.
A few very few may be heretical.

I have concerns myself about infiltrations into Orthodoxy, consisting of issues of deemphasizing the atonement, which began under some pan slavist influenced Russian priests and its real spearhead was a staunch anticommunist ROCOR metropolitan Krapovitsky, and some tiny presence of the charismatic deception (mostly deception, probably some divine operation), though the way Orthodoxy is structured in its liturgy and practices this puts a brake on anything. Then there is Kalomiros and his notions, based on misinterpretation of an icon whose visual teaching contradicts him.

If you want more dirt on Podmoshensky, he is probably queer.

crazy clergy come and crazy clergy go, but Orthodoxy goes on forever.
It is always the same church service, variations per a "typikon" maybe 1,000 old, and sermons can be 10 minutes to nonexistent in an hour and a half to 2 hour service. Not much room for sneaking wierd views in. the primary teaching is in the liturgy itself which was stabilized over 1,000 years ago.
 
http://www.ocatruth.com is a better information source than ocanews. They
started out good, about a financial scandal, but the leader has his own agenda, shifting power down fro the Metropolitan and Holy Synod into the next down council I forget its name, and is queer himself.
 
Christine,

The only reason I have been presenting all this information and asking all these questions is because I saw your name on a list of supporters of Metropolitan Jonah - not because I wanted "dirt" on anyone.

LAITY WHO SUPPORT HIS BEATITUDE

http://www.ocatruth.com/?page_id
=69

One of my concerns was that since you are a convert from evangelicalism, you may not have been tuned in to what you yourself have referred to as the "craziness" of Orthodox internal politics and may have been taken in by people with ties to the HOMS cult.

While all churches have their problems, you are probably better off in the Greek Church. It seems to me that at least you can more easily ascertain whether or not it is canonically recognized.
 
"One of my concerns was that since you are a convert from evangelicalism, you may not have been tuned in to what you yourself have referred to as the "craziness" of Orthodox internal politics and may have been taken in by people with ties to the HOMS cult."

My conversion was entirely self driven by research over the years, and some experiences. As to which Orthodox church I went with, that was conditioned by two things, the priest and his wife were quick to give me a house blessing to stop some paranormal problems starting to develop, and the location wasn't hard for me to get to, no dicey freeway connections when I would be goofy that time in the morning.

ex HOMS problems are their own problems. I am sure many were sincere. The real problem with them was gnostic ideas, not authoritarianism, which manifested as seeing clergy as a way superior class to laity, and Met. Jonah's actions so criticized were entirely canonical and consisted with the OCA bylaws based on these. The real driver for the hostility to him, was the ambition of some below him, and his hostility to homosexuality.
 
I suspect Constance Cumbey has just gotten tired and uninterested. Content and integrity no longer matters.
 
I Love the Lord

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gxyKNirKQY&feature=related

Rest in peace Witney Houston.
 
For anyone not familiar with the New Age cult known as the Holy Order Of MANS, here is some information I tried to post earlier without success:

HOLY ORDER OF MANS ( Founded by Earl W. Blighton )
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Holy_Order_of_MANS

http://www.rickross.com/groups/hom.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Order_of_MANS
_______________________________

SCIENCE OF MAN (parent organization to HOLY ORDER OF MANS)

http://www.scienceofman.org/history/
________________________________

CO-ED MONASTERY
Newsweek, October 1, 1973

http://www.rickross.com/reference/
hom/hom1.html
______________________________

The movement’s signature initiation, called ‘illumination’, was seen as an infusing of the initiate’s physical and subtle bodies with the light of the Cosmic Christ. The order saw the widespread administration of this sacrament as necessary to prepare humanity for the radically changed vibratory level that would accompany the Golden Age. ....read more.....

http://what-when-how.com/religious
-movements/holy-order-of-mans-religious-movement/
_________________________________

The following is a page from the website of my fellow bloggger the late Carrie Tomko where she ties the Holy Order of MANS in with Rosicrucianism and other esoteric groups which have become part and parcel of the New Age Movement.

http://carrietomko.blogspot.com/
search?q=holy+order+of+mans
______________________________

The following site is maintained by former Holy Order of MANS members who are NOT associated with Christ the Savior Brotherhood.

http://www.holyorderofmans.org/
intropage.htm
 
Me: "Soldiers are trained in unarmed combat as part of the job, and techniques are no different depending on who the enemy is"

Christine: "For God's sake man, the point is they were EXPLICITLY expected to fight AMERICANS. That's the point."

An army is trained to fight FOR its country. Who its enemies are can change overnight - and did, twice, between Hitler and Stalin, for example. Whether the cutout figure used in target practice is decked out American, Russian, Chinese, Indian etc makes no difference.

"John Moore ran into Russians who expect to someday be occupying our grain belt."

They would say that to an American! NATO exercises during the Cold War were based on a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, and Russian soldiers were trained for that - so those Russian soldiers were just talking about their current training, as soldiers do. But it didn't happen in Europe, because America won the Cold War - thanks to Ronald Reagan (and despite many people holding your views). Look at the difficulty of transporting a few tens of thousand men across the English Channel in summer 1944 - then it is clear that the landing and supplying of millions of hostile troops in the USA, or of protecting them militarily and climatically during a forced march over the Bering Strait, would be a feat unprecedented in all military and logistical history. I fear that you been taking trash written on the internet as authoritative. You can find *anything* on the internet, so why people believe the sites they do is largely up to them.

"Unfortunately, the propaganda is pretty true. Just ask the women who have to work with them in our armed forces, just ask the women who had to be around them before they joined the military."

Putting your comments on this issue together means that you are asserting most US soldiers are would-be rapists. Do you wish to retract that? (I'm not putting words into your mouth, if you read your own posts.)

"I have never been "proven wrong" here."

Perhaps not to your own satisfaction. But to make the point, here is one example. I wrote, "It's not research, by the way - don't confuse what you do with anything original." You replied: "There is nothing original. We stand on the shoulders of others." I pointed out that, while we do indeed stand on the shoulders of others (which I never denied), the discovery of particular laws of physics WAS original, as there was a time before which they weren't known and after which they were.

Instead of accepting that you were wrong, you started saying that such things were rare. But that wasn't true either. Scientific discoveries are made every day. Big ones are rare in physics today, but I used them only as examples, and biochemistry is presently in a golden age (cf physics 1900-30) in which big discoveries *are* regularly made.

Look, we all make mistakes. I have done. Haven't you?
 
anonymous whatsyername, i am not going to bother to explain anything to you or argue with you I am ignoring you from now on.

The way you twist my words and weasle, is beyond mere incompetence. IF you are physicist with a degree, then you can't possibly be as stupid and scatterbrained as this, unless your competence is limited to figures and not words. Which is possible.
Either way you are not worth arguing with.

This should also make some people here happy, because there won't be so many posts from me, or so longwinded, trying to explain things to such a mentally disorganized (or perhaps dishonest?) person as yourself.

It will make me happy too, because I won't have to work so hard at educating the uneducatable.

Bye.
 
The State of Oregon here is right up with the times at the capitol. Awhile back a senate session was opened up with a prayer to "Mother Earth" and just yesterday we had a legislative meeting opened up with a prayer by a Jewish Rabbi, Muslim Cleric, and Christian minister. Multi-Culteralism is really at work.
 
Anon. 9:03
Indeed I am an internet tough guy.
And a syncophant ( which I
had to look up ) and probably a
capon, which I don't really
understand...but hey what does
that make you ?
Goodness gracious.
You're a riot.
 
Dr. Pianka wants 90% of the world population exterminated. not just sterilize a lot and wait for the rest to die off and not reproduce, but outright KILL them. and his audience cheered.

http://tinyurl.com/m5dogd

Pianka claims Forrest Mims III who reported this took his remarks out of context, that he was explaining what could happen in a dense population not advocating it, but I sort of doubt that a person like Mims can't get a statement and general picture of speech and reaction right.

http://tinyurl.com/85ernfx

"Forrest Mims, pictured above, ended the interview by warning that if indeed the students of Pianka agree with his views, they could become scientists in the future and seriously research and hope to implement such policies.

"Mims cited that the 1918 flu virus that caused a mass epidemic has recently been re-created. There are also other MORE DEADLY viruses in existence in labs across the world. If someone wanted to release these in order to "save the world" they wouldn't have to spend years creating the means to do it.

"Mims stated that he is "deeply disturbed" with the scientific community:

""I interviewed the student who became a convert to this for 45 minutes and sir, you are absolutely correct, there are people out there who are willing to do this""

http://tinyurl.com/rvfg2
 
Hey, Christine - when are you going to take your show on the road?

You should be 'on the stage'...the next one leaves in 20 minutes!
 
Paul - Since you will no doubt be the last one out, be sure and turn off the lights, OK?
 
http://tinyurl.com/7az64hu

Tea Party Television youtube channel
Rosa Koire on Agenda 21 a UN plan
being implemented (and fought) across the USA and elsewhere.

"Behind the Green Mask" title of the video and of her book on amazon.com
all sections of the political spectrum are fighting this.

Agenda 21 is sometimes dismissed as "conspiracy theory," but the public record on it exists. It is sustainability on steroids. See also her interview by Alex Jones

she considered herself an environmentalist, and sees the sustainability and Agenda 21 thing as hijacking environmentalism. Ultimate goal is to eliminate single family homes, pack people in high density housing in the cities, and render a huge proportion of the country not accessible to humans.

It is also a severe power grab.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esJY2SK_4tE&feature=related

Glenn Beck on Agenda 21

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8YCLzlpDlw&feature=related

Earth Charter successor to Agenda 21, same deal. Religious (New Age type) underpinnings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg-v2A-KtDI&feature=related

Depopulation and Agenda 21
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL0qZTbcrs8&feature=related

Agenda 21 Depopulation part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZysbdF8iSA&feature=related

Agenda 21 Depopulation part 2
 
Dear D... Anonymous,
I'd like to help you out.
Which way did you come in ?
 
I never can say goodbye. No no no no no oo.

Never can say goodbye, no, no, no, no, now.
 
Christine, you are a totally stupid MF.
 
I never said anything about leaving. I said I wasn't going to bother to argue with you.
 
Please lighten up, everyone!

Reading between the lines, I think that the Anonymous posters at 1:02 AM and 1:08 AM were just trying to call attention to 'the elephant in the room'....the fact that one person (Christine) has been totally dominating this blog for some time now....and that more and more of the regular posters are either leaving, or have aleady left.
 
The tone here has been established. Christine posts things that should be challened. Christine declares the challenger stupid. Curse words prevail. Earnest posters' words are distorted to become things they hadn't said then they are attacked (probably by an anon. Christine) for the post. This continues unmoderated. Long time researchers and blog supporters find it unbelievable what has happened here and leave disgusted. The new norm has been set.
 
"The tone here has been established. Christine posts things that should be challened. Christine declares the challenger stupid. Curse words prevail."

The is truly slander and false. I only lately got around to deciding that the person who twists my words, speaks besides the point, etc. is either stupid or dishonest. That was not my normative reaction when I tried and tried to sort through the smoke being blown.

Curse words didn't prevail, rarely I made a minor such thing, I notice no one is arguing about the holiness display of the person who called me a stupid MF so I assume the complaints regarding my milder cussing were hypocritical attempts to derail the issues discussed.

I am not now, nor will I bother, to argue the issues discussed. I will post information and links and leave it at that.

Someone earlier on another thread suggested we should figure out how to DO something to stop all the bad stuff.

A good start would be to fight Agenda 21 or whatever it is calling itself these days. Its existence is fully documented, so I am not going to answer anyone who says it is a conspiracy theory myth.

But I am beginning to suspect, that some people here are New Age plants themselves. researching some of Joyce's posts, I see that she dealt with the sort of issues that this blog is very much about, yet the game was attack, attack. Why?

Perhaps Constance should disable the option to be anonymous, and maybe (though fake names can be used) it will be possible to find out something about the anonymouses. What they attack is an interesting pattern, what they actually stand for might be even more interesting.
 
Christine,

Your post of 11.00am implies that you think the physicist with whom you have been contending - myself - has also posted some of the abusive comments about you following your "Bye" post. I have not.
 
when everybody is anonymous, I can't tell who to blame for what. If the shoe doesn't fit the remarks were not intended for you. I am addressing whoever said whatever my remarks make sense as relating to, not anyone else.
 
Christine @ 1:59 PM:
Re: "But I am beginning to suspect, that some people here are New Age plants themselves.

Researching some of Joyce's posts, I see that she dealt with the sort of issues that this blog is very much about, yet the game was attack, attack. Why?"
___________________________________

WOW....you clearly need a reality check. Not everyone who happens to disagree with you - and/or who posts anonymously - is 'a new age plant.' Many of us have been regular posters here for many years (and long before Joyce ever arrived) and we have always fought AGAINST anything connected with the New Age Movement. ("By their fruits ye shall know them" - not by what 'name' they post under....but, of course, you're too busy talking instead of listening.)

However, there is a mounting curiosity that you and Joyce might be one and the same person, since you are so quick to defend her.

Furthermore, Joyce was usually the one who 'attacked' us...not the other way around. She always thought (as you seem to) that HER opinion was the only one that mattered....and spent enormous amounts of time and blog space running roughshod over others.
 
"But I am beginning to suspect, that some people here are New Age plants themselves."

Strange. Some of us have thought the same thing about you!
 
And just how do you know who 'you' is exactly???

LOL!!!
 
I find it very interesting that a couple of you have figured out (finally) that Christine Erikson (aka Justina) is Joyce. It's the same 'I do all the research and you never do any of it, go find your own stuff' that has always been posted. Meanwhile, she pretends to know everything about everything and is quite smart. So much so that some of you still love to hear from her and some of you still love to dislike her. Nobody really understands the direction that evil is taking in our world. When it's all finished we'll realize just how wrong and deceived we've been. Joyce got mad and wanted to stay away but she just can't do it. She's probably jealous of Susanna who is also prolific here. However, I think Susanna has good intentions. It's interesting to me how much time we spend trying to figure out what we can't know. It's frustrating but we'll all get to the bottom of it at the same time.

Steve
 
Thank you, Steve for your thoughts and input on this.

Christine (Joyce) is not even close to being in the same class as Susanna.

As brilliant a researcher as Susanna is, she is humble (never arrogant) and always respectful of others' views.

Personally, I'll take 'prolific' over obnoxious any day of the week.

;~)
 
"I find it very interesting that a couple of you have figured out (finally) that Christine Erikson (aka Justina) is Joyce....probably jealpus of susanna..."

such silly, silly people. I posted lots of research links, and am drawing on decades of stuff i learned. not easy to condense or find all sources online. Not so prolific if I hadn't made the mistake of feeding trolls.
 
Susanna doesn't drop links to new age sites and identify them as authoritative. If she did she would admit her mistake. She wouldn't tell anyone they are stupid for expecting an explanation.

Do unto others...

Over several blog topics the expert on everything who dominates this blog tells people how stupid they are when they disagree with her. She interjects vile acronyms to add ridicule and scorn to those who dissent. She finally had it returned unto her and she didn't like it. Now it is "hypocracy to derail the issues discussed".

Kumbayah. Let's all follow the leader and shift our attention to combatting Agenda 21.
 
Susanna's information is always solid. Let's all try to cut the sarcasm. I'm not perfect myself, therefore, I dare not demand it from others. We can all use the "collapse comments" feature if we want to skip comments of some.

Constance
 
I will tell everybody right now, CRISTINA ERIKSON is not JOYCE. I have had personal dealings with both (Joyce via SKYPE to Europe. I have met Cristina personally many years ago in Palo Alto, California, the area where she lives.

Constance
 
To Anonymous 10:40

Re your Rothschild theory, I checked your reference which is "American Free Press" which seems to be a recent d/b/a of Willis Carto and Company, folks from whom I would probably never want to buy a used car.

This looks like the old Eustace Mullins stuff in just about the same packaging at that.

Constance
 
Steve,

You are wrong. Joyce left because attacks here were potentially damaging her husband's European ministry. Christine Erikson and I have talked for many years and we met personally in California when I was speaking there in the 1980's. We were both, needless to say, much younger then.

Contance
 
Dear Constance and friends,

Thank you all for your kind words.

The following information has no reference either to Christine or Joyce. It is for the benefit of those who do not know the history and affiliations of the dangerous New Age cult known as the Holy Order of MANS.

Together, certain dioceses of the Orthodox Church of America represent but one organization which which "the HOOM" has - and probably still - has ties.

In fact, Holy Order of MANS website is still maintained by former Holy Order of MANS members
who are NOT associated with Christ the Savior Brotherhood.

http://www.holyorderofmans.org/
intropage.htm
_________________________________

The Holy Order of MANS started out as the Science of Man headed by Earl W. Blighton - a.k.a. "Master Paul." Some even believed that Blighton was the reincarnation of the Apostle Paul.

SCIENCE OF MAN http://www.scienceofman.org/history/
_________________________________

The Holy Order of MANS cult morphed directly out of the Science of Man cult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy
_Order_of_MANS
_________________________________

HOLY ORDER OF MANS ( Founded by Earl W. Blighton )

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Holy_Order
_of_MANS
___________________________________

HOLY ORDER OF MANS (Also known as Christ the Savior Brotherhood)

http://www.rickross.com/groups/
hom.html
___________________________________


CSB CHRIST THE SAVIOR BROTHERHOOD

http://pokrov.org/display.asp
?ds=Group&id=38
_________________________________

The following is a page from the website of my online friend, the late Carrie Tomko, where she ties the Holy Order of MANS in with Rosicrucianism and other esoteric groups that have become part and parcel of the New Age Movement. Carrie Tomko, who was also a Roman Catholic, also shows how the HOOM & co. has tried to cloak their heresies with "borrowings" from the Roman Catholic Church.

Ergo, there is no intention on my part to knock any other Christian communon - especially one with which the Roman Catholic Church has a special agreement concerning intercommunion in a moral emergency.

http://carrietomko.blogspot.com/
search?q=holy+order+of+mans
 
Dear Constance and friends,

Thank you all for your kind words.

The following information has no reference either to Christine or Joyce. It is for the benefit of those who do not know the history and affiliations of the dangerous New Age cult known as the Holy Order of MANS.

Together, certain dioceses of the Orthodox Church of America represent but one organization which which "the HOOM" has - and probably still - has ties.

In fact, Holy Order of MANS website is still maintained by former Holy Order of MANS members
who are NOT associated with Christ the Savior Brotherhood.

http://www.holyorderofmans.org/
intropage.htm
_________________________________

The Holy Order of MANS started out as the Science of Man headed by Earl W. Blighton - a.k.a. "Master Paul." Some even believed that Blighton was the reincarnation of the Apostle Paul.

SCIENCE OF MAN http://www.scienceofman.org/history/
_________________________________

The Holy Order of MANS cult morphed directly out of the Science of Man cult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy
_Order_of_MANS
_________________________________

HOLY ORDER OF MANS ( Founded by Earl W. Blighton )

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Holy_Order
_of_MANS
___________________________________

HOLY ORDER OF MANS (Also known as Christ the Savior Brotherhood)

http://www.rickross.com/groups/
hom.html
___________________________________


CSB CHRIST THE SAVIOR BROTHERHOOD

http://pokrov.org/display.asp
?ds=Group&id=38
_________________________________

The following is a page from the website of my online friend, the late Carrie Tomko, where she ties the Holy Order of MANS in with Rosicrucianism and other esoteric groups that have become part and parcel of the New Age Movement. Carrie Tomko, who was also a Roman Catholic, also shows how the HOOM & co. has tried to cloak their heresies with "borrowings" from the Roman Catholic Church.

Ergo, there is no intention on my part to knock any other Christian communon - especially one with which the Roman Catholic Church has a special agreement concerning intercommunion in a moral emergency.

http://carrietomko.blogspot.com/
search?q=holy+order+of+mans
 
Dear Constance and friends,

Thank you all for your kind words.

The following information has no reference either to Christine or Joyce. It is for the benefit of those who do not know the history and affiliations of the dangerous New Age cult known as the Holy Order of MANS.

Together, certain dioceses of the Orthodox Church of America represent but one organization which which "the HOOM" has - and probably still - has ties.

In fact, Holy Order of MANS website is still maintained by former Holy Order of MANS members
who are NOT associated with Christ the Savior Brotherhood.

http://www.holyorderofmans.org/
intropage.htm
_________________________________

The Holy Order of MANS started out as the Science of Man headed by Earl W. Blighton - a.k.a. "Master Paul." Some even believed that Blighton was the reincarnation of the Apostle Paul.

SCIENCE OF MAN http://www.scienceofman.org/history/
_________________________________

The Holy Order of MANS cult morphed directly out of the Science of Man cult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy
_Order_of_MANS
_________________________________

HOLY ORDER OF MANS ( Founded by Earl W. Blighton )

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Holy_Order
_of_MANS
___________________________________

HOLY ORDER OF MANS (Also known as Christ the Savior Brotherhood)

http://www.rickross.com/groups/
hom.html
___________________________________


CSB CHRIST THE SAVIOR BROTHERHOOD

http://pokrov.org/display.asp
?ds=Group&id=38
_________________________________

The following is a page from the website of my online friend, the late Carrie Tomko, where she ties the Holy Order of MANS in with Rosicrucianism and other esoteric groups that have become part and parcel of the New Age Movement. Carrie Tomko, who was also a Roman Catholic, also shows how the HOOM & co. has tried to cloak their heresies with "borrowings" from the Roman Catholic Church.

Ergo, there is no intention on my part to knock any other Christian communon - especially one with which the Roman Catholic Church has a special agreement concerning intercommunion in a moral emergency.

http://carrietomko.blogspot.com/
search?q=holy+order+of+mans
 
Dear Constance and friends,

Thank you all for your kind words.

The following information has no reference either to Christine or Joyce. It is for the benefit of those who do not know the history and affiliations of the dangerous New Age cult known as the Holy Order of MANS.

Together, certain dioceses of the Orthodox Church of America represent but one organization which which "the HOOM" has - and probably still - has ties.

In fact, Holy Order of MANS website is still maintained by former Holy Order of MANS members
who are NOT associated with Christ the Savior Brotherhood.

http://www.holyorderofmans.org/
intropage.htm
_________________________________

The Holy Order of MANS started out as the Science of Man headed by Earl W. Blighton - a.k.a. "Master Paul." Some even believed that Blighton was the reincarnation of the Apostle Paul.

SCIENCE OF MAN http://www.scienceofman.org/history/
_________________________________

The Holy Order of MANS cult morphed directly out of the Science of Man cult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy
_Order_of_MANS
_________________________________

HOLY ORDER OF MANS ( Founded by Earl W. Blighton )

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Holy_Order
_of_MANS
___________________________________

HOLY ORDER OF MANS (Also known as Christ the Savior Brotherhood)

http://www.rickross.com/groups/
hom.html
___________________________________


CSB CHRIST THE SAVIOR BROTHERHOOD

http://pokrov.org/display.asp
?ds=Group&id=38
_________________________________

The following is a page from the website of my online friend, the late Carrie Tomko, where she ties the Holy Order of MANS in with Rosicrucianism and other esoteric groups that have become part and parcel of the New Age Movement. Carrie Tomko, who was also a Roman Catholic, also shows how the HOOM & co. has tried to cloak their heresies with "borrowings" from the Roman Catholic Church.

Ergo, there is no intention on my part to knock any other Christian communon - especially one with which the Roman Catholic Church has a special agreement concerning intercommunion in a moral emergency.

http://carrietomko.blogspot.com/
search?q=holy+order+of+mans
 
Dear Constance and friends,

Thank you all for your kind words.

The following information has no reference either to Christine or Joyce. It is for the benefit of those who do not know the history and affiliations of the dangerous New Age cult known as the Holy Order of MANS.

Together, certain dioceses of the Orthodox Church of America represent but one organization which which "the HOOM" has - and probably still - has ties.

In fact, Holy Order of MANS website is still maintained by former Holy Order of MANS members
who are NOT associated with Christ the Savior Brotherhood.

http://www.holyorderofmans.org/
intropage.htm
_________________________________

The Holy Order of MANS started out as the Science of Man headed by Earl W. Blighton - a.k.a. "Master Paul." Some even believed that Blighton was the reincarnation of the Apostle Paul.

SCIENCE OF MAN http://www.scienceofman.org/history/
_________________________________

The Holy Order of MANS cult morphed directly out of the Science of Man cult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy
_Order_of_MANS
_________________________________

HOLY ORDER OF MANS ( Founded by Earl W. Blighton )

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Holy_Order
_of_MANS
___________________________________

HOLY ORDER OF MANS (Also known as Christ the Savior Brotherhood)

http://www.rickross.com/groups/
hom.html
___________________________________


The following is a page from the website of my online friend, the late Carrie Tomko, where she ties the Holy Order of MANS in with Rosicrucianism and other esoteric groups that have become part and parcel of the New Age Movement. Carrie Tomko, who was also a Roman Catholic, also shows how the HOOM & co. has tried to cloak their heresies with "borrowings" from the Roman Catholic Church.

Ergo, there is no intention on my part to knock any other Christian communon - especially one with which the Roman Catholic Church has a special agreement concerning intercommunion in a moral emergency.

http://carrietomko.blogspot.com/
search?q=holy+order+of+mans
 
"Susanna doesn't drop links to new age sites and identify them as authoritative."

Neither did I. I repeatedly stated that there were New Agey problems in proposed solutions to the problems described, but the problems description was solid and it was a convenient introduction to THOSE issues.

On Youtube you will find an interesting set of videos about the New Age infiltration of the truth movement, NOT the "truther" movement about 9-11 which is another issue, but the exposure of the NWO. New Age has gotten very big in doing this, which has no bearing on the information they are reacting to.

If you can't, WITH WARNINGS I INCLUDED I THE POSTS, separate wheat from chaff in such posts, how do you hope to see through anything in "the world" or where it plays in the churches?
 
"Over several blog topics the expert on everything who dominates this blog tells people how stupid they are when they disagree with her."

After enough prodding, and with advice on how to stop being superficial. And not "several" just a few.

"She interjects vile acronyms to add ridicule and scorn to those who dissent."

ONE "vile acronymn" my total shock at how despite repeated efforts to get attention to the relevant part of the sentence the person kept answering irrelevantly.

Dissent is disagreement with something presented and understood, honest dissent that is.

When one can't or WON'T get the point, as PROVEN by the STATEMENTS MADE that ARE BESIDE THE POINT, clearly they are either playing a game, like a delphi facilitator, or they are so dense it is unthinkable they could construct a readable sentence which they can, ergo, probably not honest dissent but subject shifting.

EITHER dishonest OR brain fried OR too afraid of the presented facts' obvious implications to deal with it, so changes the subject while pretending to addess it.

I have been the target of such games from various people especially me very evil biological so-called mother, so I know it when I see it.

"She finally had it returned unto her and she didn't like it. Now it is "hypocracy to derail the issues discussed"."

Again, you twist things. I have stopped being irritated and merely find you silly (though not fondness inducing sense of laughter).

I pointed out that the bitching about my language, was not also targetted at another (who may being anonymous have been the one who complained originally), ergo there is another agenda at work in the initial complaint.

Agenda 21 is designed to take down the economy and facilitate unhealthy compression of population into small zones eventually, which in turn by facilitating pandemics which work better in dense population, will facilitate the expressed desire of population reduction by 50 to 90% depending who is talking.

Ever hear of the Georgia Guide Stones? Go google that one. No I won't post a link, because EVERYONE NEEDS TO LEARN HOW TO DO RESEARCH AND TO GET IN THE HABIT OF DOING SO. And any link or book reference given needs to be investigated also, not taken as 100% authoritative. NOTHING but The Bible is 100% authoritative anyway.

The Georgia Guide Stones say that the population should be MAINTAINED at I think it was 500 million which of course means a horrendous mass human die off must happen before the population of the world can be maintained at that level.

Maybe the holocaust that Constance is anticipating if the New Age NWO gets in open control, is already beginning in subtle ways.

The proliferation of Deep Underground Military (and some civilian) Bases world wide still going on, long after the Cold War ended, means some people are expecting something MAJOR to happen, and they intend to ride it out underground. WW 3? Nibiru? pandemics deliberately let loose?

whatever. It doesn't look good for the rest of us. (Personally, I would take my chances on the surface and refuse an invitation to go to one of those bases if given an invitation. They could be death traps themselves in some scenarios.)
 
To Christine @ 12:30 PM:
Re: "I have been the target of such games from various people especially me very evil biological so-called mother, so I know it when I see it."
___________________________________

Well, Christine - your outspoken and very public negative opinion of your own mother certainly explains a lot!!!

Actually, I feel pity for you, and sincerely pray for the day when you will come to realize that only one person (YOU) is responsible for your own actions and opinions.
(We can never become a 'victim' without our permission.)
 
"Actually, I feel pity for you, and sincerely pray for the day when you will come to realize that only one person (YOU) is responsible for your own actions and opinions.
(We can never become a 'victim' without our permission.)"

And pattern recognition and identifying similar stuff is part of retracting that permission.
 
Christine:

Just because we don't shout it from the rooftops doesn't mean that many of us are not aleady quite familiar with the Georgia Guidestones.

There are some of us who believe that the NWO's agenda for drastic depopulation of the world has been going full force for qite some time through many various means: e.g. wars, ethnic cleansing, manipulated 'unnatural' weather disasters, the incredible availablility of both legal and illegal drugs, and possibly even vaccines!!!
 
Dear Constance and friends,

Thank you all for your kind words.

The following information has no reference either to Christine or Joyce. It is for the benefit of those who do not know the history and affiliations of the dangerous New Age cult known as the Holy Order of MANS.

Together, certain dioceses of the Orthodox Church of America represent but one organization which which "the HOOM" has - and probably still - has ties.

In fact, Holy Order of MANS website is still maintained by former Holy Order of MANS members
who are NOT associated with Christ the Savior Brotherhood.

http://www.holyorderofmans.org/
intropage.htm
_________________________________

The Holy Order of MANS started out as the Science of Man headed by Earl W. Blighton - a.k.a. "Master Paul." Some even believed that Blighton was the reincarnation of the Apostle Paul.

SCIENCE OF MAN http://www.scienceofman.org/history/
_________________________________

The Holy Order of MANS cult morphed directly out of the Science of Man cult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy
_Order_of_MANS
_________________________________

HOLY ORDER OF MANS ( Founded by Earl W. Blighton )

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Holy_Order
_of_MANS
___________________________________

HOLY ORDER OF MANS (Also known as Christ the Savior Brotherhood)

http://www.rickross.com/groups/
hom.html
___________________________________


CSB CHRIST THE SAVIOR BROTHERHOOD

http://pokrov.org/display.asp
?ds=Group&id=38
_________________________________

The following is a page from the website of my online friend, the late Carrie Tomko, where she ties the Holy Order of MANS in with Rosicrucianism and other esoteric groups that have become part and parcel of the New Age Movement. Carrie Tomko, who was also a Roman Catholic, also shows how the HOOM & co. has tried to cloak their heresies with "borrowings" from the Roman Catholic Church.

Ergo, there is no intention on my part to knock any other Christian communon - especially one with which the Roman Catholic Church has a special agreement concerning intercommunion in a moral emergency.

http://carrietomko.blogspot.com/
search?q=holy+order+of+mans
 
Dear Constance and friends,

Thank you all for your kind words.

The following information has no reference either to Christine or Joyce. It is for the benefit of those who do not know the history and affiliations of the dangerous New Age cult known as the Holy Order of MANS.

Together, certain dioceses of the Orthodox Church of America represent but one organization which which "the HOOM" has - and probably still - has ties.

In fact, Holy Order of MANS website is still maintained by former Holy Order of MANS members
who are NOT associated with Christ the Savior Brotherhood.

http://www.holyorderofmans.org/
intropage.htm
_________________________________

The Holy Order of MANS started out as the Science of Man headed by Earl W. Blighton - a.k.a. "Master Paul." Some even believed that Blighton was the reincarnation of the Apostle Paul.

SCIENCE OF MAN http://www.scienceofman.org/history/
_________________________________

The Holy Order of MANS cult morphed directly out of the Science of Man cult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy
_Order_of_MANS
_________________________________

HOLY ORDER OF MANS ( Founded by Earl W. Blighton )

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Holy_Order
_of_MANS
___________________________________

HOLY ORDER OF MANS (Also known as Christ the Savior Brotherhood)

http://www.rickross.com/groups/
hom.html
___________________________________


CSB CHRIST THE SAVIOR BROTHERHOOD

http://pokrov.org/display.asp
?ds=Group&id=38
_________________________________

The following is a page from the website of my online friend, the late Carrie Tomko, where she ties the Holy Order of MANS in with Rosicrucianism and other esoteric groups that have become part and parcel of the New Age Movement. Carrie Tomko, who was also a Roman Catholic, also shows how the HOOM & co. has tried to cloak their heresies with "borrowings" from the Roman Catholic Church.

Ergo, there is no intention on my part to knock any other Christian communon - especially one with which the Roman Catholic Church has a special agreement concerning intercommunion in a moral emergency.

http://carrietomko.blogspot.com/
search?q=holy+order+of+mans
 
To Christine @ 2:06 PM
Re: "And pattern recognition and identifying similar stuff is part of retracting that permission."
___________________________________

And I sincerely pray that you do succeed in that journey.
 
Dear Constance and friends,

Thank you all for your kind words.

The following information has no reference either to Christine or Joyce. It is for the benefit of those who do not know the history and affiliations of the dangerous New Age cult known as the Holy Order of MANS.

Together, certain dioceses of the Orthodox Church of America represent but one organization which which "the HOOM" has - and probably still - has ties.

In fact, Holy Order of MANS website is still maintained by former Holy Order of MANS members
who are NOT associated with Christ the Savior Brotherhood.

http://www.holyorderofmans.org/
intropage.htm
_________________________________

The Holy Order of MANS started out as the Science of Man headed by Earl W. Blighton - a.k.a. "Master Paul." Some even believed that Blighton was the reincarnation of the Apostle Paul.

SCIENCE OF MAN http://www.scienceofman.org/history/
 
The Holy Order of MANS cult morphed directly out of the Science of Man cult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy
_Order_of_MANS
_________________________________

HOLY ORDER OF MANS ( Founded by Earl W. Blighton )

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Holy_Order
_of_MANS
___________________________________

HOLY ORDER OF MANS (Also known as Christ the Savior Brotherhood)

http://www.rickross.com/groups/
hom.html
___________________________________


CSB CHRIST THE SAVIOR BROTHERHOOD

http://pokrov.org/display.asp
?ds=Group&id=38
_________________________________

The following is a page from the website of my online friend, the late Carrie Tomko, where she ties the Holy Order of MANS in with Rosicrucianism and other esoteric groups that have become part and parcel of the New Age Movement. Carrie Tomko, who was also a Roman Catholic, also shows how the HOOM & co. has tried to cloak their heresies with "borrowings" from the Roman Catholic Church.

Ergo, there is no intention on my part to knock any other Christian communon - especially one with which the Roman Catholic Church has a special agreement concerning intercommunion in a moral emergency.

http://carrietomko.blogspot.com/
search?q=holy+order+of+mans
 
the speech that got napolitano fired

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fOaCemmsnNk
 
when non tinyurl is posted, this often fails and you will see in the URL at the top of the page, %20 referring to the space that breaks the URL. highlight this and delete it leaving the rest of the URL (check for more than one occurrance) and
click enter and you should get to the page.
 
Judge Napolitano asks rhetorically:

"what if the widely perceived differences between the two political parties were merely an illusion?"


This is precisely a scenario described in Ravallette: The Rosicrucian's Story by Paschal Beverly Randolph when in an occult "trance" (called "sleep of sialam") he describes a "left wing" and a "right wing" that are both moving LEFT - albeit the "left wing" is moving more radically LEFTWARD than the other.

By the way, Ravalette was republished by R. Swinburne Clymer in 1939 when the Rosicrucian Brotherhood came into the crosshairs of the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on un-American Activities after a photo of rival Rosicrucian leader H. Spencer Lewis depicting him on very friendly terms with Benito Mussolini appeared on the front page of a prominent American newspaper.

LOL Needless to say, Clymer did all but swear the print out of the Bible that his Rosicrucian Brotherhood had no ties whatsoever with that of H. Spencer Lewis.
 
To everyone:

While being respectful of his privacy, I would like to say that the gentleman who claims to be an academic physicist is an online friend of mine with whom I have been corresponding for some time now.

We began our correspondence when I asked him if he thought the New Age Movement might be trying to hijack certain elements of Quantum Physics, and, after changing their meaning, deploy these tainted elements in the service of their own New Age agenda. JD was the one who connected us vis a vis e-mail addresses.

I can truthfully say that judging from our correspondence, this gentleman is who he says he is, and has probably forgotten more about physics than all of us together will ever know.

I would also like to say that I am an eyewitness to his posts of 1:28 and 4:08. The reason why I can say this is because he was having trouble posting after the changes Constance made to her blog and I offered to post his comments for him......an offer which he gladly accepted. He has made no further posts, either himself or through me, since those.

Moreover, he had carefully revised his 1:28 post because he is also a committed Christian and told me he didn't want to be perceived as being "too antagonistic" in keeping with Ephesians 4:29.

As far as I am concerned, while he is capable of standing his ground in a debate to be sure, he is certainly not abusive. He is a gentleman.
 
susanna, that is interesting about the information in that trance. It would look like the directions being taken by the "two" parties, not only overt but the hidden underpinning of corporate power and secret agendas, may be directed in part by demons. This in turn would support the scenario of Republithugs and Dummycrooks being both involved in such activities.

Of course, in Randolph's time the parties were different, left and right were definable differently, and so forth.

Most people probably don't know this, but originally the USA had NO political parties, and the Founding Fathers didn't like the idea of such.

the first political party as I recall from reading history books back in the 1960s was the Anti Masonic Party, who were incensed at the end run around the separation of powers in government, effectivly created by having people in all posts who were of the same ideology, goals and shared oaths and a non governmental organization so to speak as their primary loyalty, and the lodges of same as where all kinds of personal and political agendas could be hashed over out of view of anyone.
 
here is an example of what Joyce was subjected to. I have answer to this person at the end of the quote.

"Joyce,

Now, other than a really hotshot website with bells and whistles, please tell us how Noosphere is impacting us politically in the real world. Don't tell us to click on numerous links. That's useless.

You called this to our attention. Why?

I'm beginning to believe some of this has been set up to have us chasing our tails while the real world goes on.

I'll grant that a lot of it is just crap meant to convince true believers that there is merit to their beliefs.

I'm getting more than a bit tired of constant oohing and ahing about letterhead operations and constant speculations about the role prophecy is supposed to play in all of this. That's all that does is attempt to convince Christians that being a Christian is the true way. It does nothing to stop what is going on. It keeps people from actually taking a stand and DOING SOMETHING.

From what I know, you are more of an insider on all of this than most of us are. It's time to get down to the bottom line.

Try getting serious with real information. And no, this is not picking on sweet Joyce who only means well. Try telling the truth Joyce. Why are you here when you could be warning Messianics about the New Age movement.

My guess is that rather than answer the questions, you will just go quiet for a few days and start all over again, turning this into the joyce.blogspot.com, getting people away from working to learn for themselves what is going on."

First, as for merely convincing Christians they have the right faith, what is wrong with that?

Second as for DOING something, you need to know something about the enemy before you can do very much.
Prayer does help, so does action.

I notice that if she posted something from a Christian source, she is encouraging ostrich behavior, I guess, is the idea, while if I post information from a New Age source I am an infiltrator.
Of course, these may not be the same anonymouses speaking.

As for preaching to the Messianics, not all Messianics are New Age, and the real problem is that a lot of them are effectively retaining the Mosaic Law rituals a bit too much.

ANY Jew who becomes Christian can be called a "messianic" Jew, in fact, "messianic" is what Christian means. Christos is Greek for Anointed as Messiach is Hebrew for Anointed.

The focus on the Hebrew origins and essential identity of Christianity is not a bad thing, unless you have a problem about this fact if so what is it? One of the neat things about Orthodoxy is that it retains elements right out of Temple worship and so forth, a continuity between the Holy Liturgy and the Hebraic worship, without the superseded in Christ type Mosaic ritual law stuff.

In marriage ceremonies, the Orthodox use the crowns on or over the heads of the couple like the Jews do.

Thirdly, what does this noosphere stuff have to do with our daily lives? Plenty. this is the mentality informing the people who are making policies and laws and Agenda 21 and so forth, a movement that thinks globally and acts locally and you would do well to check on the mentality of the people involved in any proposal local to you, as a hint as to what an otherwise undecipherable and harmless or mildly irritating thing might be in fact aiming to help set the stage for, however irrelevant it might seem to be,

AND once you fit all these pieces of local policy and legislation and so forth with that larger picture, you see what is going on, and what you need to work against.

Agenda 21 isn't the only thing to worry about, and thank God some places have rejected it.

But the blight creeping across the country is part of its INTENDED results. Not only do some elites get richer at our expense, but furthers on purpose the economic collapse of America.
 
The "trance" called
the "sleep of sialam" is a technique of "sex magic" and may have also been taught by H.P. Blavatsky.

It is also referred to as "eroto-comotose lucidity."
 
http://tinyurl.com/7n85wuj

Europe's undeclared nuclear countries and they got their bombs from us.
 
for what its worth

http://tinyurl.com/84l335g

planned WW 3 to set the stage for a totalitarian regime in all first world countries, which in turn will assure that the "right people" survive and are in charge after a global catastrophe expected to happen.

We are now in the time of the horseman who rides the black horse.
black is the color of oil and economic problems are growing. The pale horse rider is probably on the move already and sword, famine, plague and the beasts of the field killing 1/4 of everybody (less than the depopulators incl. Kissinger are on record as wanting and his estimate of the desirable die off was less than others) would fit the nuclear and biological war planned.

It may be unstoppable but we don't have to dirty our hands with approving it.

Revelation 6:12-17 anyone? nibiru or a major asteroid hit.
 
before anyone starts yelling, the final parts of this are like wishful thinking at best. benevolent ETs that are us - bs. the reptilian quality of some evil people, however, may bespeak a demonic presence in them, and the cold calculating mass murder mentality would fit that pretty well.
But the rest of this is worth considering. This is a classic example perhaps of the new age infiltration of the truth movement,
the alternative press and analysis of deep politics, but it doesn't have any bearing on the legitimacy - or lack thereof - of the information that the new age thinking then brings its solutions to bear on.

A total refusal to cooperate would be nice, but it is unlikely to happen enough to prevent this. The Serbian Black Hand movement started by "apis" whatsisname was back of the assassination that started WW II, and that "apis" (bee) fellow was stated in one place to have practiced occult rituals. So the presence of evil spirits in the mix is likely.

Icke makes the whole subject look silly, and that is probably his function. Other people throw in ET as a way of making things look silly. This whistleblower may have been a case of that, presenting this information some were already deducing online, and adding the ET thing to discredit this line of inquiry.
 
http://tinyurl.com/7rltb8l

http://warisacrime.org/node/19200

Retired Gen. Wesley Clark says there was a plan to take down assorted middle eastern countries, with Iran last. (there are questions about how sincere or merely political he is now. The point is, the information in his interview.)
 
Wesley Clark should know. He was clcse to Javier Solana, as well.

Constance
 
To All:

I just reviewed my spam and discovered Google had slotted some things there that were not spam. I am particularly interested in the HOLY ORDER OF MANS which was a distinct New Age cult when I first discovered the New Age Movement. There are claims that it was converted as a group and that Fr. Seraphim Rose had a role in the conversion. I would like more and credible information on same.

Constance
 
"MOSCOW prepares military response for Iranian attack — Russia has been preparing for the prospect of an Israeli or U.S. air strike on Iran in 2012. Officials said the Kremlin has ordered the military to draft options for a Russian response to any foreign attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities."

http://tinyurl.com/88kzr74

told you so!
 
Hi Constance,

Regarding Holy Order of MANS please check my earlier posts at:

7:45 P.M.

10:15 A.M.

10:24 A.M.

10:37 A.M.

12:39 P.M.


Seraphim Rose was an associate of "Gleb" Podmoshcnsky. Seraphim Rose was also the person who resurrected the Mandaean gnostic "aerial toll-house" myth.

While Seraphim Rose was not personally involved with the Holy order of MANS, he was an associate of Father Herman "Gleb" Podmoshensky and promoted other gnostic teachings such as the Mandean/gnostic "Toll House Myth" which was later embraced by some of the cult-like "Elder Ephraim Monasteries."

This Toll House Myth has been used by some of the Father Ephraim cults in such a way as to give "spiritual directors" complete control over the unwary person who is so unfortunate as to fall into their clutches.

GREEK ORTHODOX MONASTERIES FOUNDED BY FATHER EPHRAIM

http://www.rickross.com/groups/eph
raim.html
________________________________


Seraphim Rose ( a.k.a. Eugene Rose) was inspired by the writings of one of the architects of the gnostic "perennialist" doctrine Rene Guenon who, before his conversion to Sufism, functioned as a "bishop" in the Alexandrian branch of the Gnostic church founded by Jules Doinel - taking the name "Palingenius."

It was Seraphim Rose and Herman "Gleb" Podmoshensky who formed the community known as St. Herman of Alaska Brotherhood with the blessing of St. John Maximovitch, Archbishop of San Francisco in the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR).
 
After Father Seraphim's death on September 2, 1982, Fr. Herman's distress led to a deterioration in his life and he started wandering off the Orthodox reservation until he was suspended by ROCOR, pending a canonical trial and under a cloud of accusations; as he continued serving, he was defrocked by the Synod for disobedience. The monastic community began to fall apart with most of the monks and novices leaving the community.

It was then that Fr. Herman began looking for new direction and an empathic hierarch.

His search led him to a community of Romanians and Greeks led by Metr. Pangratios (Vrionis) of the Archdiocese of Vasilioupolis in Queens, New York (Vasilioupolis being Queens in Greek). Pangratios, however, was not recognized canonically by any other Orthodox Church. Regardless of the canonical aspects, Fr. Herman felt he had found a context for his brotherhood and missionary movement.

In the meantime, the death of Holy Order of MANS founder Earl Blighton sparked a four-year leadership struggle, ending in 1978when one of Blighton's top lieutenants, Vincent Rossi, emerged as director-general of the order.

After the Jim Jones "Peoples Temple" tragedy in Guyana, the Holy Order of MANS came under closer scrutiny and the order began showing up on the lists of ''cult groups'' published by organizations devoted to curtailing cult activities.


This is why the leadership began to lean towards Orthodox Christianity - some say with a view to Making the Orthodox Church serve as a more respectable front for their New Age teachings by conferring on them a facade of "legitimacy." This led to the formation of a new organization called "Christ the Savior Brotherhood."

But alas, while individual members were welcome to renounce their past and join established Orthodox churches no established Orthodox church would accept the Holy Order of MANS en masse.

Enter the two defrocked priests; His Eminence Metropolitan Pangratios Gerasimos Vrionis (a.k.a. Demetrios G. Vrionis ) , spiritual leader of the Holy Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Vasiloupolis, Queens, New York; and Father Herman "Gleb" Podmoshensky.

As has already been pointed out in a previously quoted article, unlike most Orthodox churches in the United States, Pangratios' church was not recognized by the Standing Conference of Canonical Orthodox Bishops in the Americas, nor was it in communion with the vast majority of Orthodox parishes, meaning that parishioners from brotherhood churches could not take communion in the celebration of Mass of most other Orthodox churches.

It was defrocked priest Father Herman "Gleb" Podmoshensky who introduced Holy Order of MANS leader Vincent Rossi to Pangratios. In the meantime, Podmoshensky had become "spiritual director" to the Holy Order of MANS and by 1990, both Podmoshensky's flock and the extensive network of Holy Order of Mans churches were officially listed as part of the unrecognised Archdiocese of Vasiloupolis.

CHRIST THE SAVIOR BROTHERHOOD - FORMERLY THE HOLY ORDER OF MANS

http://pokrov.org/display.asp?ds=Group&id=38
 
America's homeless resort to tent cities

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front


Ah yes. Why go to work 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year when you can become a welfare scrounger and go live in a tent?

Bring your wife and kids while you are at it! Party Time! No more worky-worky! Baked bean in a can for everyone.

Lock your car doors on your way to church, ladies and gentlemen. Those tent-dwellers can get mighty rowdy.
 
Christine:

How in the world does an attack on Iran threaten Russia to the degree that they feel the need to retaliate??

When you say "I told you so!" what exactly did you tell us? If I recall, I think it was that if Russia sends missiles our way it will be because we provoked her - that it will be our fault. So I ask again, how does attacking Iran provoke Russia to the point where she can justifiably attack the US or Israel?

The answer: It doesn't. But Russia has done a pretty good job of brainwashing a majority of the world into thinking that any escalation of worldwide conflict or war is the fault of the United States or Israel. Why have they done this?

So they can feel justified in attacking the US and/or Israel with their own nukes, which they have always wanted to do anyway, Cold War or no Cold War.

Russia has been stirring the revolutionary pot all around the world (and here in the US) since their own revolution in 1917. They want war so they can at some point destroy the West and shift the power centers back to the Eastern empires as in the days of old, before the West ascended to take away the reigns of power from the East. They are the warmongers, not us. But they have duped the West into thinking otherwise.

They are warriors (along with the Chinese and Persians). We are not. We like to talk the talk, and do our little war dances in places like Iraq and Afghanistan and Grenada, but when it comes to fighting China or Russia or Iran, well, I hope we're as big as we talk, because if not (which is what I suspect), most of this country will be covered in radioactive dust in the not-too-distant future.

What comes out of the ash heaps is anyone's guess. I'm guessing it'll be the New Agers saying "No More War Ever!" and there may be some supernatural surprises to help people pick them to lead the world into the biggest period of insanity and idiocy that we've ever seen.

So anyway, *what* you told us might be right (attack Iran and Russia will attack us), but on the *why* I completely disagree with you. It isn't our fault. The stage has been set by Russia and the Kremlin planners over a long period of time to attack us in a way that seems justifiable to them and to most of the rest of the world.

If we do nothing, Russia will find some other reason to attack us. I guess I'm saying that such an attack is inevitable. Perhaps it is. They still keep building nuclear missiles, we still keep destroying ours. What other likely outcome could there be?
 
Christine,

You find that "the Kremlin has ordered the military to draft options
for a Russian response to any foreign attack on Iran's nuclear
facilities" and the mere report of the drafting of pieces of paper
suffices for you to say that America must do nothing. Do you not
realise that it is the routine job of the Russian military to prepare
options in unfolding situations? What counts is what is on those
pieces of paper - of which you (and I) have no idea. I thank God you
are not a diplomat.
 
"Do you not
realise that it is the routine job of the Russian military to prepare
options in unfolding situations? What counts is what is on those
pieces of paper - of which you (and I) have no idea."

yawwwwnnnnn. give glory to God every day you're able to pick your nose without breaking your own arm.

Iran defined as a security issue. later, military force stated will be used regardings that impact Russian security. later, video Russian soldiers having fun trashing U.S. flag. connect the dots.
 
http://tinyurl.com/7787alw

Consequences To Expect If The U.S. Invades Iran
 
Posted today is an article titled “Learning Etymology with Bill Johnson: A New Age ‘Repentance’?” with its subject Bill Johnson, Senior Pastor of Bethel Church in Redding, CA illustrating he does not conform to the orthodox Christian definition of repentance and renewing the mind. The article argues that instead Johnson is using the New Age application by comparing quotes from Johnson’s books to those of Unity Church, New Ager (Episcopalian priest) Cynthia Bourgeault [from her book The Wisdom Jesus] and E.W. Kenyon via D. R. McConnell’s book A Different Gospel.

A telling quote from the article:

“Many prominent authors and conference speakers add fuel to the fire of fear assuming that because the new age movement promotes it, its origins must be from the devil…"

http://tinyurl.com/85olzks

"...`Re' means to go back. `Pent' is like the penthouse, the top floor of the building. Repent, then, means to go back to God's perspective on reality..."
 
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2012/02/20/silencing-the-critics/

http://tinyurl.com/7lo2pfu
 
Well, Christine - your outspoken and very public negative opinion of your own mother certainly explains a lot!!!

Actually, I feel pity for you, and sincerely pray for the day when you will come to realize that only one person (YOU) is responsible for your own actions and opinions.
(We can never become a 'victim' without our permission.)


I am no fan of Christine Erickson but I strongly disagree with your response. While adult children who grew up in a loving home and those who grew up with an abusive parent (or parents) are both moral agents, they are not on equal footing in how they are equipped to deal with life.

Those who cause such children, who are entrusted to them as a gift from God, to stumble are in a very serious position before God Himself as head of the household.

Much of the evil of child abuse and neglect is hidden. Such parents are often pillars of society and the Church.
 
To Susanna 5:20

Susanna, EXCELLENT research which I have followed up on.

Don Lattin, btw, is an interesting case study in and of himself. He interviewed me in the 1980s and had an anti-New Age perspective then. His later book seems quite pro-New Age to me. I wonder if he experimented with some of the techniques at New Age challenges to do so. That usually puts people over the edge and why I so vigorously resist and oppose any type of New Age experimentation.

Thanks!

Constance
 
Russia's security - they are in mutual defense agreements with surrounding countries who are immediately affectable by washout from Iranian problem. Syria with be involved and they ALREADY have warships near Syria to prevent American invasion. they also have along standing relationship with Iran.

In addition, there are serious questions about the legality of

Russia has brainwashed us - I stumbled on the relevant material almost by accident.

Russia stirring the pot since revolution - russia is not communist or are you behind the times? China is more likely to counterattack first anyway. Statements from their military, are more up front, Russia's more muted. This is an obvious way of sending a signal without being too pushy to have it come from high military rather than government officials.

who knows what the outcome - then don't do it.

New Agers gaining from it - then don't do it.

What did I tell you? get some memory help pills. I have been HOLLERING all along that attacking Iran, whether the result is nuclear or conventional, will mean WW 3 between the big three superpowers, US Russia and China.

The situation in the Middle East is precisely the kind of networked relationships that made a powder keg before WW 1 and only took one match to ignite. Learn from history.

I am not going to argue with you any more. I am 60 years old, I used to frequent a John Birch Society bookstore eagerly, and I learned a lot since then. Some of their material is useful to get a start on the hidden history aka conspiracy stuff, but it isn't as simple as they made it out to be and a good case could be made that Robert Welch was some sort of keep 'em busy but not in ways that count but do make them look silly or bad sort of commie plant.
 
Christina,
Thanks for the Paul Craig Roberts link.
I had to print it out because I have to
believe he will be shut down or worse
himself.
Imagine; Leon Panetta AND The CIA's
National Intelligence Estimate both
say that Iran has NOT made the leap,
or even any moves, from nuclear
energy to nuclear bombs. Yet all we hear
is how they are a threat they are a threat
...it sounds just like Bush before he
bombed the daylights out of Iraq,
after which even he admitted, had to admit,
that the "intelligence was wrong".
Here we go again, at the behest (demand)
of AIPAC.
News flash people: Israel doesn't give
a crap about America, if they can use us
to protect themselves they will do just
that.
 
Christine,
Thank you for that link to Paul Roberts. Wow did he ever leak some information. Also your blog post on your blog site about Agenda 21 is really interesting.
 
you're welcome!
 
America's homeless resort to tent cities

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/front

-------

I couldn't get your link to work, so I do not know what angles of homelessness the story covered. However, I think your comments are very telling about you, anonymous.

You kind of remind me of those people in the Bible, where, when someone without money comes in to the church, they tell them, Oh, you can stand there, or you can sit here on the floor. Then James goes on to scold them for having become judges of people. I assume he means that they are judging the people who are poor, and perhaps the judgers assume those who are poorer than the others, by their very lack of money, have proven thenmselves to be less honorable or righteous than the others. Perhaps they are lazy, the judgers may be thinking.

Is that what you think and judge when you see a homeless person? That they are too lazy to work? Like I said, I cannot get your link to work, so perhaps you are making those wisecracks based on something in the article. You do know that there are homeless people who also work, don't you? However, not everyone can afford the price of shelter these days. Not everybody has a job with a livable wage. Not everyone can find a full-time job.

True, there might be some government assistance available. Not everyone will want to take it, and maybe part of the reason some won't go for the help when they need it is because of those who are the judgers, who will then complain, Oh, look at that lazy person, taking welfare.

Perhaps you can explain your comments better? Perhaps I misunderstood your words?
 
Dear Constance,

Thank you for your kind words. I am glad to have been able to share the information.

For the benefit of those who have not heard of Don Lattin, he was the religion writer for the San Francisco Chronicle.

The date of Don Lattin's San Francisco Chronicle article, SUDDENLY ORTHODOX, is dated May 31, 1992.

Sounds like he experimented with New Age techniques when he munched on mescalin-rich mushrooms (a.k.a. peyote) with a circle of friends that included Aldous Huxley. Later, he certainly did more than experiment with alcohol and cocaine until he finally checked himself into rehab in the Fall of 2004.

DON LATTIN'S BLOG - RED ROOM
http://redroom.com/member/don-lattin/blog
___________________________

DON LATTIN JOURNALIST
http://www.donlattin.com/
___________________________

Coming in September 2012
DISTILLED SPIRITS


Getting High, then Sober, with a Famous Writer, a Forgotten Philosopher and a Hopeless Drunk

By Don Lattin

http://www.donlattin.com/pageds/dl
_distilled_spirits.html
 
Dear Anon 4:57,

I think Anon. 5:22 has been misunderstood.

When his/her comments are read in the context of the article, I think he/she is trying to say "who in his right mind would prefer living in this sort of squalor if work were available that would enable him to escape???"

Here is the BBC article and a viable link. By all means tell me if you think I am mistaken?

AMERICA'S HOMELESS RESORT TO TENT CITIES

http://news.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/
front_page/newsid_9694000/9694094.stm
 
Susanna-

I began this answer a short while ago, then my undependable internet cut out and erased it all.

Thanks for the link, but after reading the article and rereading5:20's comments, I think I understand what 5:20 is saying, unfortunately.

4:57
 
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